Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calc-Related Projects and Ideas => TI-Nspire => Topic started by: SpiroH on November 16, 2012, 09:15:03 am
-
Hi all,
Here's a little gadget for Mac os x. Yeah, you've got it from the title.
Check it out. See if it works for you. Have some fun.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img823/9918/1nspikxtp.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img341/8740/2nspikxcp.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img844/121/3nspikxabout.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img534/5439/4nspikxpref.png)
Cheers,
SpiroH
P.S. I'll get back later…
Edit:
Minimum required SDK: 10.6 (Snow leopard).
A 5min introductory movie (.mov): nSpiKx_v1 in action (http://depositfiles.com/files/hqy1xais3)
Edit (03Dec12):
Minor update: compiled also for power-pc sdk>=10.6 (not tested!) + drag&drop LCD to desktop or .rtf document
Edit (31Jan13):
Latest version ('Mountain Lion' compatible) is here: nSpiKx_v4 (http://ourl.ca/17492/336793)
Edit (20May13):
On the 14Mar13, i've posted a bug fix release v0.51, which you can find here: nSpiKx_v5.1 (http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=el9trbsi5og05bospgpip0h283&topic=14895.msg287514#msg287514).
In the same post, you also find a 9min movie illustrating the usb-explorer functionality.
Edit (30Jun13): added youtube links.
-
No source code, of course ?
-
Thanks, will try :)
Also, what language/sdk did you use ? It "looks" native on some part (Cocoa look) but it mixes C and ObjC ... ? :P
And yeah, could the source code be released ?
I'd personnaly be interested in it, too :P
-
Can you write a version for OSX 10.5.x please?
-
Can you write a version for OSX 10.5.x please?
Alex, thanks for you interest. I'm so sorry. I've tried to compile nSpiKx with 10.5 sdk. But alas, quite a number of methods i use are not implemented in sdk 10.5.
So, going backwards to 10.5 would imply quite a nbr of changes in the current code, which aren't easy to replace. Please try to update your system to Snow Leopard, if possible. Cheers.
-
Other people might want to do the porting work... but without the source code, it's hard.
-
Can you write a version for OSX 10.5.x please?
Alex, thanks for you interest. I'm so sorry. I've tried to compile nSpiKx with 10.5 sdk. But alas, quite a number of methods i use are not implemented in sdk 10.5.
So, going backwards to 10.5 would imply quite a nbr of changes in the current code, which aren't easy to replace. Please try to update your system to Snow Leopard, if possible. Cheers.
Ok no probleme because my father just bought Snow leopard. So i update this soon. (Sorry for my english, i'm beginner :D )
-
+1 for you! I couldn't get kArmTI since I use a Mac, so this is perfect!
Hehe great port ;)
-
By the way, isn't there any kind of GPL/open source rules/TOS that disallows the usage of open-source code inside closed-source projects? If that's the case, then Omni staff would have to take down both KarmTI and nSpiKx from Omnimaga and lock the topics.
I'm not too familiar with the GPL and other Open Source licenses, but I do not remember many open source code being used in proprietary softwares, so I assumed there might be some sort of rules.
I'm not gonna embark into the whole debate about why it should be open-source, though (maybe new general topic?), other than mentioning that it appears that Nspire_emu updates (if any) are no longer posted in public until every competitor that make use of its code becomes open-source.
-
If nspire_emu were licensed under a license that forbids closed-source derivatives, indeed, SpiroH's forks should be taken down.
However, the license of nspire_emu (rather, the lack thereof) allows anybody to fork it, without providing the sources of the fork, without contributing modifications back to upstream, without trying to work with upstream, or anything...
A possible reason for that state of fact (I don't know) is that Goplat assumed that people would be good citizens and would care about the community, so a license that forbids closed-source derivatives would be superfluous.
However, unlike all other persons who worked on nspire_emu and/or its derivatives, SpiroH has proved otherwise. Despite gentle (and explicative, at the beginning) calls from multiple persons to lighten up, he keeps spewing closed source forks based on an outdated version of nspire_emu. That version doesn't have UI improvements, GDB support, partial Nspire CAS+ support - the sum of which represents thousands of lines of changes and reorganization in the source code. The release of that version was delayed as a result of SpiroH's closed-source forks.
Him not showing signs of getting a clue about why what he's doing is harmful to the community, and not providing his reasoning for doing so, has raised exasperation.
-
other than mentioning that it appears that Nspire_emu updates (if any) are no longer posted in public until every competitor that make use of its code becomes open-source.
Might be a good idea.
The next update includes TI-Nspire CAS+ support and XModem support, thus a more complete support of Boot1/Boot2 boot combos.
See here: http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10772
(http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/13/23/13/53/casbug10.png)
(http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/13/23/13/53/casos11.png)
-
If nspire_emu were licensed under a license that forbids closed-source derivatives, indeed, SpiroH's forks should be taken down.
However, the license of nspire_emu (rather, the lack thereof) allows anybody to fork it, without providing the sources of the fork, without contributing modifications back to upstream, without trying to work with upstream, or anything...
A possible reason for that state of fact (I don't know) is that Goplat assumed that people would be good citizens and would care about the community, so a license that forbids closed-source derivatives would be superfluous.
However, unlike all other persons who worked on nspire_emu and/or its derivatives, SpiroH has proved otherwise. Despite gentle (and explicative, at the beginning) calls from multiple persons to lighten up, he keeps spewing closed source forks based on an outdated version of nspire_emu. That version doesn't have UI improvements, GDB support, partial Nspire CAS+ support - the sum of which represents thousands of lines of changes and reorganization in the source code. The release of that version was delayed as a result of SpiroH's closed-source forks.
Him not showing signs of getting a clue about why what he's doing is harmful to the community, and not providing his reasoning for doing so, has raised exasperation.
Ah that sucks. I do not program anymore, but if I ever decided to do it again and my source was available, I would try to choose a license that limits certain rights, while still allowing the use of the source under certain conditions.
Personally, the only real motive I could see from a project that remains closed source far into its progress is to compete head-on with the software the fork originated from.
I wonder if a software license can be changed as it progresses? Can, for example, an open-source software start limiting the usage of its source to only specific TI community users or force people to open-source their softwares, and of course still allowing anyone to update the original project? The current builds could still be forked, but newer versions with added features wouldn't, meaning that any closed-source softwares would eventually be far behind.
And then, if the author of the fork ever decides to add new features himself, then nspire_emu contributors can counter that by copying any new emulation/compatibility features the fork author adds? :P
Of course the above is assuming that an open-source software can switch to a different licence in the very middle of its development, though.
-
A software license can usually be changed as the software progresses, provided contributors agree to the licensing change. Project which cannot follow the new license are stuck on the old versions.
It's possible to make an independent reimplementation of the user-oriented features of SpiroH's forks, but it's a waste of time for everyone... it would be so much better if SpiroH lightened up.
-
Yeah I agree, although if nothing is going to change in the next year or so for example, I would rather see Nspire_Emu progress with unnecessary extra work than see it stalled for maybe 1, 2 or even 3 years just because a competing project potentially take that long before becoming open-source.
-
With the emulator in MAC-OS (nSpiKx), is easy to port to i-OS? :w00t:
PD: HP50G emulation on MAC-OS & i-OS (i/PAD/POD/PHONE)
MAC-OS http://www.thewinterstorm.com/product.php?id_product=14
(http://www.thewinterstorm.com/myimg/Emu48_Screenshot1.png)
i-OS http://www.thewinterstorm.com/category.php?id_category=6
(http://a1623.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/072/Purple/v4/48/be/a5/48bea59e-82a6-1779-420b-fcba3e2e0689/mzl.xwpczkrs.320x480-75.jpg)
-
My Christmas gift for TI-nspire mac users. A simple Usb Explorer (but already alive and kicking). :)
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3371/nspikxv02usbexplorer.png)
Have a nice holiday,
SpiroH.
-
I can't help but think that a much better Christmas gift, for the community, would be you releasing, at long last, the sources of your dead nspire_emu forks, which do bring some user-level features (we've always acknowledged that), but are harmful to the community at large.
Indeed, newer nspire_emu versions (with GDB support, Nspire CAS+ support, etc. - the diff since nspire_emu_060 has thousands of lines !) are effectively being withheld from the public until you do, so that you can't pull the closed-source fork trick twice, and thereby expand the duration of the suboptimal situation you've created for even longer.
I'm aware that this message sounds aggressive - but previous gentle repeated attempts to make you behave in a way that goes towards the community's best interests have failed so far, so we're trying other ways to convey our message.
-
Thanks, that quite awesome :)
(But yeah, the source code there is even more interesting now !)
-
Many thanks to all for the appreciation of my hard work! I even get negative points, whereas the commentators get a lot of positive points. So, it's quite an opportunity for the bad-mouthers! Good for them. Do you have a mirror at home? What about if I have a complete different opinion? I mean, they are simply wrong! Is that not allowed around here? I'm so sorry. Never mind, i still wish some of you a great Christmas season!
-
The problem is not your hard work; it's the counter-productive and harmful way you're doing it. It's a bad thing that you don't feel like acting (which would be pretty easy) to fix your wrong ways, for the benefit of the community.
Nobody in their right mind can do anything but strongly advise against using your dead, harmful forks - until you release the sources, that is.
-
That's your opinion, with which i disagree totally. The downloads' count of kArmTI and even of nSpiKx tell a different story. What about that?
-
With source code programs evolve rapidly...
Linux
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
-
The downloads' count of kArmTI and even of nSpiKx tell a different story. What about that?
If people are silly enough to download your outdated versions, it's their loss. Anyhow, it does not make you right for your egregious abuse of open source software and for the resulting harm to a community.
-
The downloads' count of kArmTI and even of nSpiKx tell a different story. What about that?
If people are silly enough to download your outdated versions, it's their loss. Anyhow, it does not make you right for your egregious abuse of open source software and for the resulting harm to a community.
The only story the download count tells is that there are a lot of people like me who don't manage to set up nspire_emu, and had to choose karmTI (which is not a real choice, but a default choice) and not, as Lionel said, that there are stupid people out there.
Now, what do we all want ? The best emulator. nspire_emu has features, karmTI has features, why do you have to impose a choice to people ? Why not just use the latest version of nspire_emu ? And if you don't want to use it, why not letting others do it ? I am sure that if your emu supported the last version (open source or not, but at least not outdated), the download count you seem to care a lot about would be a lot higher.
Here was the opinion of someone who would like to chose karmTI and regrets not being able to have all the new features of nspire_emu.
-
The downloads' count of kArmTI and even of nSpiKx tell a different story. What about that?
If people are silly enough to download your outdated versions, it's their loss. Anyhow, it does not make you right for your egregious abuse of open source software and for the resulting harm to a community.
What license is nspire_emu under? If the license says he can keep his forks closed source if he wants, then stop pressuring him. If it says that it has to be open source, then go ahead, but please take the pressure off the forums. You have made your point.
-
I agree with Eeems. Even though I agree with Lionel, Lionel has made his point clear at least 7 or 8 times already (many times in a polite way). If SpiroH wants to do what he wants, then it's useless to continue this argument. I myself have given up by now. Instead, you better ignore him and his projects. Plus continuing too much will make Omni look like it supports harrassment. On the other hand, maybe Omni needs to regulate which kind of closed source project is allowed on the forums, but that would be hard to enforce.
-
I've never expressed myself clearly about this problem.
If we sum up things, we have a developper who does benefit from the work of others (open-source).
But no developper can benefit from his own work, as he turned open-source into closed-source, which is a total heresy to me.
I've been in the TI community for years (less than DJ_O or Lionel Debroux though), I could see many things, many projects start and die.
Why is VirtualTI dead today for example, although it was a reference years ago? Because it was closed-source, and because the authors stopped updating it.
Why was nDoom updated to a color version although Mrakoplatz left? Because he shared his work on the source code.
This behaviour here has nothing to do in the TI community, but might be welcome in other communities.
When you benefit from the work of others which is freely available, sharing your modifications/improvements is just showing respect towards the authors.
This was my own opinion - I won't bother you again with that.
-
I agree with last posters.
In my humble opinion, basing your closed-source work on someone's open-source work is not respectful.
Why would you act this way ? If you are afraid that someone could steal your work, there are licenses to prevent that.
And indeed, this would make your project last longer, even if you stop updating it.
I can't see negative effects, so I don't understand.
But off course, this is your choice...
-
Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, I have no problems with that, whatsoever.
I've been in programming world for more 30 years now, so i've seen a lot too...
I'm not benefiting from other people's code at all simply because i use an alias, SpiroH is not real name. On the other hand, other people (not developers directly, i agree!) are benefiting from my own developing work.
My idea has always been from the very beginning to provide an easier access to the emulator the less tech savvy young students. If that has been misunderstood, i'm sorry. Furthermore, I did not know this forum was 'reserved' for open-source software.
Right now, I'm really considering whether or not i should simply go away, because my 'bad behaviour' is not considered acceptable in this forum. It's very easy to notice and curious that the 'bad reviews' always come from the same group of people, though. Yeah, i'm getting far too much disappointment and annoyance and i have also other important stuff to take care of. I'm stopping here because this discussion will certainly lead nowhere, yet again.
-
This forum is not reserved for open source software. It does not state that anywhere in our mission statement, our rules or any release made by the admins, myself included. I would ask you not to leave due to a few being very vocal about you not being open source. Since people have not gotten the message that this is something that should not be pushed in a public place, the next person to downtalk someone for their choice on if they release their source code gets a 1 day temp ban.
The issue that you took open source software and made a closed source fork of it is there, but that is your choice. The only time it becomes someone elses issue is if it is against the license for what you forked your project from. I don't even know what license the original is under so I can't say for sure. So if someone could let me know what license the original is under we can end this discussion once and for all on if you should or should not release your source.
-
As Eeems said only a few people were voicing negative opinions about the software. I myself did too, but when I saw you didn't change your mind I stopped. I may not agree with your views, but it doesn't mean I'll constantly reprimand SpiroH about his actions. That would border on harrassment (in fact, maybe it is, per USA/Canada's definition, but I could be wrong).
I think one main main misunderstood here, that goes way beyond conflicting opinions, is that certain TI community members are convinced that SpiroH's only intention with KarmTI/nSpiKx is to flat-out compete directly against nspire_emu in order to get an ego boost, a common practice among past TI programmers on ticalc.org (and their friends... who don't remember all the Noshell bashing there from CalcUtil fanboys, despite the fact CalcUtil used plenty of code from Noshell?). SpiroH's latest post (specifically the 3rd line about his intention to let people's benefit from his work) states otherwise. With the knowledge that SpiroH has no bad intentions by keeping his software closed-source, I think all he did was having a strong opinion that is opposite to some people's view.
And everyone is entitled to their own views/opinions, although of course Omni has rules about how you can voice it (eg no harrassing behaviour, forcing people to do stuff they don't want to, forcing people to change their opinions or even being rude), and even if anyone disagrees with someone else, it doesn't mean the other person has to change his view, and if convincing him to do so doesn't work after a while, then IMHO the issue is closed.
In the future, it would be nice if any debate for/against open-source would be kept in a separate thread and if anyone has a problem with a forum member, then he should deal with it via PM or report him to a moderator. It would also be nice if people stopped posting ragequit messages in response to such small group of people or even in response to moderation, when there are many other forum members you can enjoy being with. It's not like Omnimaga encourages hostility: There's even a notice on the front page discouraging it.
Why is VirtualTI dead today for example, although it was a reference years ago? Because it was closed-source, and because the authors stopped updating it.
Small correction, VTI source is actually on ticalc.org ;) http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/85/8554.html (it's outdated, though)
-
Right now, I'm really considering whether or not i should simply go away
Assuming you are really considering leaving (*), I strongly doubt you'll conclude that you should simply go away without releasing the source code of your work - lest you want to prove us right in retrospect and damage your reputation even further ;)
But if you conclude that you should go away rather than trying to work cooperatively with upstream nspire_emu and efficiently help making the best possible Nspire emulator (that's what we're all asking for, the best explanation was probably Hayleia's above, as shown by the high number of upvotes it received) - IOW, if you don't want to make a more than welcome departure from your current obstructive behaviour - then so be it.
One thing that you might want to take into account when thinking about what you should do, is that I, and the others who agree with me, will be right (for the sake of the community) both ways, whether you release the source code or you don't:
* if you don't, we'll have been right to ask, and later warn against your versions;
* if you do, we'll have been right to pressure you into becoming a more useful member of the community.
Since people have not gotten the message that this is something that should not be pushed in a public place, the next person to downtalk someone for their choice on if they release their source code gets a 1 day temp ban.
Don't you think that this kind of moderator decisions will make people just use other ways and venues than Omnimaga to get SpiroH to behave more constructively, because that's in the community's best interests ?
As you know, in the TI community, I seldom complain that a community program is closed-source, and besides, I usually choose softer forms of expression. The admittedly increasingly hardball play, in this occurrence, is done because it is important that everybody can get the best open-source community Nspire emulator, and because it is flat out silly that anyone would have to waste time reinventing SpiroH's working wheel. I'm trying various tricks to try and prevent that outcome. Being polite didn't work, playing hardball hasn't yet worked.
and all you get here for your work are just allegations and hostilities
You seem to have missed that, once again, that our posts (including this one, and the one from yesterday morning which triggered the current discussion) do acknowledge the useful bits of his work...
certain TI community members are convinced that SpiroH's only intention with KarmTI/nSpiKx is to flat-out compete directly against nspire_emu in order to get an ego boost, a common practice among past TI programmers on ticalc.org
We think that there are no valid reasons for what he's doing, only bad reasons, excuses and pretexts. Ego (trying to make one's indispensable) is definitely one of the possible causes of not releasing the source code and/or nor behaving constructively.
Why are we attributing an ego to SpiroH, though it's possible that it's not his motivation ? Simply by experience: over time, in the TI community, as DJ_O indicates, we've seen some technically capable persons with large egos, and the harm their behaviour created in the community.
Indeed, VTI's source code is outdated, which is why critor indicated that it's closed-source (for practical purposes) :)
(*): over time, in the TI community, we saw several perverts who had no intention to either fix their wrong ways or leave, but nevertheless threatened to leave. I'm not stating that you're one of them, just that such statements remind me of bogus threats I read in the past.
-
Indeed, VTI's source code is outdated, which is why critor indicated that it's closed-source (for practical purposes) :)
I never found any source for the latest VTI 3.0 alpha, which was the first version to support the TI-83 Plus Flash memory.
A major improvement over VTI 2.5 beta, and sadly nothing more ever.
-
In response to SpiroH and fhub, no, it is not always the same people who answer since that was the first time I said something about it. And SpiroH didn't only get allegations and hostilities, at first he had compliments and politely-asked request about source code or using the last version of nspire_emu. All the askers got was a "no", and not a "no because..." so the askers asked again and got the same answer so they asked again, etc, and we are still at the same point.
In fact, what people want is not the source code, they want to see karmTI with the latest version of nspire_emu, but since you don't do it, they ask for the source to do it themselves, and this is where you get angry.
And leaving would be even more stupid because no one would be able to add the latest version of nspire_emu to karmTI sonce you would be gone and others wouldn't have the source code.
So SpiroH, I can understand why you don't release the source code, you can be afraid of code stealers. But why don't you use the latest version of nspire_emu ? I mean, using the last version would make your emu better so why avoiding it ?
If you give an answer to that question, the askers will certainly let you alone, and that would be the solution (and not leaving).
-
fhub
But why don't you use the latest version of nspire_emu ?
Well, it seems you're missing one important point: where is this 'latest version' of nspire_emu???
Lionel gave the link to the updated source in a similar topic. He got no reply.
It seems you missed that too.
-
Although one member here (the one who complained most) has mentioned several times that newer nspire_emu versions would exist,
They do.
but he never said where this newer version(s) could be downloaded.
You're having it backwards again, Franz: there's no improved public version of nspire_emu (at least the very latest version, with GDBstub, Nspire CAS+, RS232 input support and other stuff) because of SpiroH's closed-source fork.
So how can anyone complain that SpiroH won't use the latest nspire_emu, when he simply has no chance to get it anywhere???
Of course he has a chance to get it. He just has to work with upstream, which, AFAICT, he hasn't tried to do, despite my indications.
As one of the contributors to upstream, I'd probably know if he had tried.
-
I'd like to take a moment to quote a sentence from our rules page;
Omnimaga is a site dedicated to calculator and computer game programming and music creation of any kind. Our goal is to provide a discussion environment free from hostility, allowing all coders to learn, help others, show off their projects, and discuss community-related news.
I know that those of you that would like this to be an open source fork have good intentions. I understand you want this project to be able to take advantage of the best of both worlds. I get that, I really do. But some of you are going on borderline harassment. That certainly does not create a friendly hostility free environment and very much goes against the spirit of Omnimaga. I'd like to ask that for the time being you cease the discussion of bringing this fork to open source. Whether you like it or not it its Spiro's choice, and obviously the insistence that this fork be made open source has gone nowhere. Thank you. :)
-
Lionel gave the link to the updated source in a similar topic.
Where? Can you provide a link?
All I've read from him (at least in the kArmTI thread) was something like "If you (SpiroH) don't give us your sources we'll not publish new nspire_emu source anymore". Just childish ...
Please, do *not* treat us as childish.
If SpiroH has the right, according to you, to use other's work in a non-mutual way, then the others have the right to stop updating, temporarily (if a new licence has to be chosen for future updates) or even permanently.
And I'd really like to see the next nspire_emu version released. It's wonderful with CAS+ emulation and RS232 input support!
(http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/13/23/13/53/casbug10.png)
That very last version remains private for now (build and source).
-
AOC: have you (Omnimaga moderators and admins in general), considered that by clamping down on such discussions to try and (fail to) create a hostility-free environment, you are helping the original trouble-maker, the disrespectful person who started it all, to keep being disrespectful to an entire community ?
As critor and others explained, a closed-source fork of an open-source program precisely goes against another part of the very rule you're quoting: "allowing all coders to learn, help others".
-
If SpiroH has the right, according to you, to use other's work in a non-mutual way, then the others have the right to stop updating, temporarily (if a new licence has to be chosen for future updates) or even permanently.
Absolutely correct! But then nobody can complain that SpiroH doesn't use this 'new' updates!
How should he if they aren't released?
The very last version has not been released and it's a pity - yes.
But I've never said that previous versions source code wasn't available publicly.
-
So SpiroH, I can understand why you don't release the source code, you can be afraid of code stealers.
I'd just like to get back on this point.
What could a code stealer make with the source code? There is no money/patents/ect involved here, so... the only thing the would be able to do would be publishing some closed-source software using the source code he got. Isn't that exactly what SpiroH made?
PS: It's not because nspire_emu has no licence that it is morally correct to do so.
-
AOC: have you (Omnimaga moderators and admins in general), considered that by clamping down on such discussions to try and (fail to) create a hostility-free environment, you are helping the original trouble-maker, the disrespectful person who started it all, to keep being disrespectful to an entire community ?
As critor and others explained, a closed-source fork of an open-source program precisely goes against another part of the very rule you're quoting: "allowing all coders to learn, help others".
I don't see any "trouble maker" nor anyone who is being disrespectful. All I see is a coder wishing to release a fork of the Nspire emu that is easy to use. It's not a rule I quote either, more of a mission statement of what we are about. I understand that it is your opinion that this project would be much better open source, however it is his choice to do so. While it is true that others could possibly learn something from the source, this project is not directly impeding anyone from learning and to suggest such is just silly. Furthermore this topic is about the current release of nSpiKx. Not whether or not you or anyone else thinks it should be open source. Let's not get any more of topic on this thread than we already have.
*Edit* And seriously people stop with all the negative downrate spamming. It's getting ridiculous.
-
Hmm. I only saw this topic today, but here's what I'm getting so far.
SpiroH forked the original nSpire_emu and added a host of new features to it, but also made it closed sourced. This is the major point of controversy.
Now, aside from all the bickering and passive aggressiveness to outright hostility, something people need to consider: some of the reasons why he wants to keep it closed sourced. I'm sure he's already stated his reasons (I couldn't find what thread this debate started in, however) but here's some (probably very likely) reasons. One, he wants to be the only one coding it. Which makes sense, he knows his code best, he wants the experience of developing the tool, and he'll be in control of everything going on. Another reason, is what if he wants to bring some of his code into a professional career? Some of his code (from what I gather) can be useful in other projects. If his work is closed source, he would be able to use his code to bolster his potential career. If the code was open sourced, it would be more difficult to do so, since it's not entirely his code anymore and it's part of the public domain. The point I'm getting at, is there are many factors leading into his decision, and we should be respectful of that, even if we disagree.
Now onto the other stuff.
Something I'm seeing is the attitude that his decision hurts the community when in fact, it doesn't. It doesn't help, but not helping doesn't mean hurting either. What is hurting however, is the fact that the issue is being thrown in SpiroH's face and the fact that you guys are basically ganging up on him. I mean, really. Disrespectful posts being uprated? And even his second release in this thread was downrated?! I'm sorry to say it, but that's just shameful in my eyes. Just because he has an opinion some don't agree with, doesn't mean we should act like children in a petty squabble. SpiroH is about to leave this community. How are you helping it by making him do that?
Also, something to point out to what critor had mentioned earlier (not to call you out, critor. I just don't know how many people share this view. I'm not trying to attack you directly with this)
If SpiroH has the right, according to you, to use other's work in a non-mutual way
Everything that is others work is still publicly available in their own releases. Everything closed source, is SpiroH's work. Let me make an analogy, I have in my hand a soda can. If I take a marker to it and update the design, that new design is based off of the old one, yes, however, the changes are my own and I control whether or not I share it. The original design is still available by simply finding a new soda can. Honestly, I can but it this bluntly, it's SpiroH's work, his choice. If you guys want an open sourced version, then make the effort on your own part, don't attack someone who put effort into his own version and chooses not to share it.
-
As far as I know, nspire_emu is public domain. This makes it perfectly fine for people to fork it and close-source it. If it had a licence, it'd be an entire different story.
So people, please just quit whining at eachother, download the emulator if you have a Mac, and be happy.
-
SpiroH forked the original nSpire_emu and added a host of new features to it, but also made it closed sourced. This is the major point of controversy.
That is not the only point. My point is why use an outdated version of nspire_emu ? If he made karmTI and nSpiKx, it was to add features to nspire_emu, no ? So why not using the version of nspire_emu that has the most features ? ???
-
...and now for something different.
The app works as far as emulating, but nothing is actually shown on-screen (not sure why). And yet, the console shows that the OS indeed boots, and I can copy actual screenshots from the emulator into another program. I'm just unable to see what's on the emulated screen. It looks like this. (http://i.imgur.com/pm9Vd.png)
-
I was gonna comment on some people's behavior above (most notably the attacks against moderators, which should be a bannable offense, IMHO) but I'll just refrain from dragging this back to offtopicness.
Now to comment on the project: There didn't seem to be any readme in the zip file. You should maybe put one or make it more visible in the help directory since all I could find were PDF files containing images. ???
Also do you plan to update to the latest available nspire_emu version as soon as a link to its source is posted on the forums?
-
This topic is locked until further notice.
-
This topic is a project topic, so it is being unlocked. Any more discussion over the whole should it be open source issue will result in a temporary ban for whoever discusses it. Even staff members. This topic is now just about the progress of the project and questions about it.
-
topic reopened
however, please be aware that Eeems' warning from earlier is still in effect.
This forum is not reserved for open source software. It does not state that anywhere in our mission statement, our rules or any release made by the admins, myself included. I would ask you not to leave due to a few being very vocal about you not being open source. Since people have not gotten the message that this is something that should not be pushed in a public place, the next person to downtalk someone for their choice on if they release their source code gets a 1 day temp ban.
The issue that you took open source software and made a closed source fork of it is there, but that is your choice. The only time it becomes someone elses issue is if it is against the license for what you forked your project from. I don't even know what license the original is under so I can't say for sure. So if someone could let me know what license the original is under we can end this discussion once and for all on if you should or should not release your source.
what follows is my personal opinion:
SpiroH:
unless necessary for security purposes, creating a closed source derivative of an open sourced project is in very poor taste. assuming that you have the majority market control, it practically places you in sole control of a project on which many other people have given their time. in addition, it reduces the power of the end user to make your application fit his needs and it creates a risk of all of your work being lost, either through a loss of interest or through an unexpected drive failure. assuming that, as you say, your motive is to help the community, you don't have a leg to stand on.
Lionel:
what i wrote immediately above shows that i do agree with your intentions. however, the "hardball" method you are choosing is harmful to everyone involved. it causes you to be stressed, which is not healthy, it causes spiro to be stressed, which is not healthy for him either, and, most importantly, it leads people to react out of emotion rather than acting logically. if you are trying to convince someone of a position, there are only two situations (that i can think of, at least) when shouting would be effective. the first such situation is when that person is someone over whom you hold some authority, in which case he will comply without agreeing with you, which does not solve the root problem. the second situation is if the subject is exceptionally humble, in which case he would have complied in the first place, without the shouting. in any other situation, such as the one above, shouting will make the person you are trying to convince to become more hostile, and thus much less likely to listen to your arguments.
everyone:
civilly presented opinions (such as hayleia's above) are more than welcome. however, we will not allow an environment that encourages angry words and insults. also, listen to mods when they are talking to you.
-
...and now for something different.
The app works as far as emulating, but nothing is actually shown on-screen (not sure why). And yet, the console shows that the OS indeed boots, and I can copy actual screenshots from the emulator into another program. I'm just unable to see what's on the emulated screen. It looks like this. (http://i.imgur.com/pm9Vd.png)
Same for me with both version. kArmTI on Wine works great but I can't put my Pokemon Emerald ROM on it for some reason, so I tried this one.
-
...and now for something different.
The app works as far as emulating, but nothing is actually shown on-screen (not sure why). And yet, the console shows that the OS indeed boots, and I can copy actual screenshots from the emulator into another program. I'm just unable to see what's on the emulated screen. It looks like this. (http://i.imgur.com/pm9Vd.png)
Same for me with both version. kArmTI on Wine works great but I can't put my Pokemon Emerald ROM on it for some reason, so I tried this one.
Would both of you please be a bit more specific about your hardware, both cpu and graphics board so that i can try to work it out? It's indeed a bit weird... Sorry bout that. Currently my test platform is an Intel Cpu + a Nvidia card, but i'll try to look into it again and test it in other platforms. As you might have guessed i've put this project on hold for a while but i'll see what i can do. cheers.
P.S. Please note that this supposed to work only on systems with Mac OS X Snow Leopard version installed, i.e. OS version >=10.6 as mentioned on the first post.
-
I have an Intel Core i7-920 processor with an ATi Radeon HD 4890 graphics card. I'm also running Mountain Lion.
kArmTI works fine in Wine anyway.
-
Thanks for your prompt reply. I can see already a potential problem with ATI graphics, because i do some direct pixel manipulation (for speed purposes) without paying too much attention to 'Endianness'. Because i've also detected some other bugs (well, minor), i will also review the graphics part.
-
I have a Core2Duo + ATI 4670 IIRC. OS is 10.8.2.
-
I have a Core2Duo + ATI 4670 IIRC. OS is 10.8.2.
Thanks! I do notice that both of you are running OS version Mountain Lion!
After reading a bit more about 'Mountain Lion', which i do not have installed in any of my computers yet, i'm now more and more convinced that this is a compatibility issue with ML rather than a graphics card issue. You can read a bit more here: "Drawing Colors Correctly in Mountain Lion" http://drawrect.tumblr.com/ and "General ML Compatibilty issues (there are literally thousands on this list!)": http://roaringapps.com/apps:table
So, users with ML (unfortunately many of you :() will have to wait a bit longer until i find the time to upgrade one of my computers to 'Mountain Lion', so that i can test it more thoroughly. When i have some news i'll post them here.
-
Thank you for the tech support. ;)
Be sure to put ML on a sturdy machine, though, because it's a CPU hogger (mine is constantly maxed :P).
-
Also, I read the post you linked and you can as well try to upload the fix so we can test for you.
-
Ok, guys here's a nSpiKx_v0.2 update for 'Mountain Lion'(ML) users. I've tested it in my own ML installation and have also received some positive feedback from other ML users.
Please note that nSpiKX_V0.2 is still based on nspire_emu v0.60, which doesn't (correctly) support unaligned memory transfers (UMTs). That has already been fixed in nspire_emu v0.70, but i did not yet made the respective upgrade to nSpiKx. This 'only' means that some games like gpSP will not run in this version, because they depend on UMTs being emulated. However many other games work perfectly well, eg: gbc4cx.
I'm also aware of some 'minor' bugs in UsbExplorer which i'll fix as soon as this ML setback has been overcome. Please note, that this is still a beta-version, specially for ML users.
That's it for now. Please report about any further "black screens".
-
Question: WHat is the purpose of the PDF files that includes just 1 image each in the zip file? Is PDF used as an image format for the images used by the emulator?
-
Question: WHat is the purpose of the PDF files that includes just 1 image each in the zip file? Is PDF used as an image format for the images used by the emulator?
It's just the image format Apple likes the toolbar icons to be so that they scale better. My favourite is .png, which i've also tried, but the icons didn't look as good. I would prefer to put all them inside a single image-list bitmap .png, as we do in windows, but i've not found yet (didn't bother either) a way to do it.
-
Basically a bug-fixing release due to recent 'Mountain Lion' issues.
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3165/aboutnspikxv03.png)
It looks more stable to me.
PS: ML is quite lazy to start-up, it takes ages when compared to good old SL (period).
Oh well, i guess it's just life unfolding in front of our eyes... :)
-
ML is quite lazy to start-up, it takes ages when compared to good old SL (period).
I told you it was a monster. :P Lion was, but not as much.
-
I told you it was a monster. :P Lion was, but not as much.
Added support for unaligned memory accesses. You should be able to run the console emulator gpSP inside nSpiKx emulator. Yeah, a lot of emulation. Oh well, 'Mountain Lion' is said to be a strong beast. Have some fun and please report any issues you would like to see fixed. Cheers.
Edit: Here is a little gpSP video demo 1m32s (.mov): nSpiKx_v4_gpSP-Demo (http://uploadingit.com/file/view/djgrpolkojtwc1ys/nSpiKx_v4_gpSP-Demo.mov.zip)
-
Looks pretty nice :D
-
is it possible to get this to the iPad as well?
-
Probably since Mac OS X and iOS share a large part of their core libraries (namely Cocoa, which this app uses, and Cocoa touch). But :
1) I doubt it will be done before this port is finished.
2) It probably won't be accepted on the AppStore so you'll need to jailbreak.
-
was thinking the same, i understood the code was not available, i would like to help making it for iOS.
if you do not deliver the boot1/boot2 files with it, and also no other ti stuff why would they reject it?
-
Because Apple rules for apps are very strict and they most likely won't accept emulators because it opens a breach to run arbitrary stuff w/o jailbreaking (even if it's sandboxed).
Also, where did you get this pic from ? *.*
-
made it myself :) just with interface builder.
-
... i would like to help making it for iOS.
Well, I guess the idea (iPad port) is somewhat attractive at first, but there are some difficulties along the way that would need to be tackled first:
1. We need to keep in mind that iPad and most of the Android devices are based on the ARM cpu and not on the x86 cpu for which nspire_emu is coded. Much of the nspire_emu memory access code is implemented in x86 assembly. So that, at least, would have to be re-written by someone with deep knowledge of both architectures. This fact poses not minor difficulties, as already mentioned by Goplat here: http://ourl.ca/9360/333346 (http://ourl.ca/9360/333346) and elsewhere on the net, e.g.: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732394/differences-between-arm-assembly-and-x86-assembly (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732394/differences-between-arm-assembly-and-x86-assembly) . Google <sometimes> is your friend. ;)
2. Probably a first step towards that solution would consist on porting nspire_emu to an ARM cpu. I guess some 'windows8' implementations already run on top of ARM cpus but personally I'm not familiar with it.
3. So, I would suggest someone finds a window8 machine that runs on an ARM cpu and fiddles with the open-source nspire_emu code to try to port it. This step requires quite some assembly language expertise as said above.
4. Porting the GUI should not be much of a problem although it requires some time.
5. Last but not least, the AppleStore/GoogleStore stuff really sucks, IMO, but i guess we'll have to learn to live with it for a while…
Good Luck!
-
hm, thats a little to hard for me i think... getting it from x86 to ARM seems a really difficult job...
but the nSpire is running arm itself so wouldn't it be easier to emulate?
-
and fiddles with the open-source nspire_emu code to try to port it
The open-source nspire_emu code is indeed a better starting point for fiddling than your closed-source forks, because it's, well, open-source :)
5. Last but not least, the AppleStore/GoogleStore stuff really sucks, IMO, but i guess we'll have to learn to live with it for a while…
Some people thought that selling your closed-source forks on an app store was the motivation for making them closed-source... but it seems that they were wrong.
-
I don't know about Google Store, but to release something on AppleStore you need to pay $99, right? Is that an annual fee or is it one-time? Still, it's expensive if you want to release something for free.
Also emulators are not allowed on Apple Store. This is why stuff like WabbitEmu don't exist for iOS devices. If you are gonna make nSpiKx for iOS device, you're gonna be limited to those who jailbreak their device and release it on Cydia or whatever other download app there is for jailbroken devices. I am not even sure if it's possible to offer ad-free applications for free on AppleStore. On Xbox Live Indie store, I never saw a single game that was free since they don't allow it, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Apple did it too.
Android might be a better option. TI is certainly not gonna make their new mobile emulator for Android in short terms as they just released an iPad version and are working on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition, so an Android port of KarmTI, nspire_emu or nSpiKx would be welcome (although I bet this might be a lot of work, so it's up to anyone to decide if he wants to take on such project :))
-
you can make apps free without adds and you have to pay $99 once a year.
there must be a way to get it in a legal way.. i hope.
but it must be programed first...
-
As opposed to the Google PlayStore where you have to pay $25 once...
-
After some quietness, here is an update (v0.5 - still beta!) to nSpiKx, mainly consisting of UsbExplorer improvements and bug-fixing.
It has been tested mostly on Snow Leopard and also a little on Mountain Lion. There are still occasional hang-ups but not as frequent. I'll try to upload a movie illustrating the functionality a bit later.
Enjoy and please report your good or bad experiences. Thanks,
EDIT1: I've uploaded a 9min movie (.mov) illustrating the UsbExplorer funcionality: nSpiKx_v05 Usb Explorer in action (http://uploadingit.com/file/view/rxf0dwo86fjldpfy/nSpiKx_v05_mov.zip) .
EDIT2: I've fixed a console bug when entering the debugger :-[. Added a new attachment so that people notice it.
-
Who spammed downvotes on this without even commenting? O.O
EDIT: Also Spiro, might I ask you to write Nspire instead of nSpire? Nspire is the official spelling. (Proof (http://education.ti.com/calculators/products/US/Nspire-Family/CX-Handhelds))
-
Who spammed downvotes on this without even commenting? O.O
Do you remember that last time, some people comments did end up in the topic being locked, and those people warned about harassment?
So if those people don't want to get banned, they just downvote instead of politely saying what they're thinking as it's forbidden.
So nothing surprising, really.
And before some assumptions are made, that has nothing to do with me: admins can check - I did neither upvote nor downvote the post.
-
But wait, didn't he say something about updating to nspire_emuv0.70?
-
If he did, I did miss that - and the downvoters too apparently.
-
Ok, guys here's a nSpiKx_v0.2 update for 'Mountain Lion'(ML) users. I've tested it in my own ML installation and have also received some positive feedback from other ML users.
Please note that nSpiKX_V0.2 is still based on nspire_emu v0.60, which doesn't (correctly) support unaligned memory transfers (UMTs). That has already been fixed in nspire_emu v0.70, but i did not yet made the respective upgrade to nSpiKx. This 'only' means that some games like gpSP will not run in this version, because they depend on UMTs being emulated. However many other games work perfectly well, eg: gbc4cx.
I'm also aware of some 'minor' bugs in UsbExplorer which i'll fix as soon as this ML setback has been overcome. Please note, that this is still a beta-version, specially for ML users.
That's it for now. Please report about any further "black screens".
I think it's in here but I might have misread that?
-
.. EDIT: Also Spiro, might I ask you to write Nspire instead of nSpire? Nspire is the official spelling. (Proof (http://education.ti.com/calculators/products/US/Nspire-Family/CX-Handhelds))
Done! BTW, It's SpiroH not Spiro! :)
But wait, didn't he say something about updating to nspire_emuv0.70?
Here is a partial v0.70 port: http://ourl.ca/17492/336793
-
Okay, cool!
And I'll write SpiroH in the Future *lowvoice*
-
I don't understand how it works. I tried to install OS 3.2 of TI nspire CX CAS but I can't select it....
How to get out the blue screen saying "nSpiKx Nspire CX emulator version 0.5 Portions 2013 by SpiroH " ?
^
I'm sorry for this noob question, but I don't know anything about emulators....
Thanks for helping :)
-
http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=8698 should help you setting up images suitable for emulators based on nspire_emu, including SpiroH's closed-source forks (even if these shouldn't be used).
-
Please HELP ME !!! I've got the boot 1, boot 2 and OS 3.2, what I do now ?
-
Please HELP ME !!! I've got the boot 1, boot 2 and OS 3.2, what I do now ?
Hi AnToX98,
nSpiKx's emulator setup is very similar to kArmTI's setup and also to nspire_emu's.
Basically you'll need:
1. the 'boot1' and 'boot2' files, which you get from your calc with the 'polydumper' utility.
2. the TI-OS flash file (you can download either from TI or TI-Planet)
3. read the first kArmTI Quick Start guide.
I would suggest you spend sometime reading the kArmTI's available documentation, which you can find linked-in the first page of kArmTI's topic. Please take into consideration that for first-timers this is normally a bit difficult. However, many of Omnimaga's young members have successfully done it. Again, you can find a lot of useful info in the kArmTI topic (look at the last posts).
Be patient and you'll get there. Good luck. :)
-
I did every thing it asks on kArmTI's quick start, but it still don't works, could you help me ? PS : I have mac OS 10.8.4.
Here are some pictures showing my setup :
(http://i.imgur.com/fa6MP1E.png) (http://i.imgur.com/a9uJTEH.png)
Note : my nspikx app and os, boots files are located on my desktop :P
I would be very gratful If you could help me :)
-
Hi again,
You need to create the folder '/Users/Antoine/Library/nSpiKx/TI_ROM' and place all TI files there (Boot1cx.img + Boot2cx.img + TICXCAS-3.1.0.392.tcc) so that the emulator can find them (that's what 'Path' means!).
The app 'nSpiKx' can be placed anywhere, though. I guess this is THE problem!
Also, you're trying to create an initialized OS-Flash file, meaning you'll be prompted to press 'I', etc. So, at this stage it's essential that you look at the console output. Enable the console window (Opt+K) and if you still have problems paste a 'screenie' here.
-
Thanks a lot :p . It finally booted. I'm sorry of posting like that but there's still a problem :
(http://i.imgur.com/I4ggCpN.png)
-
Good that you've managed to start the booting process, that's already a nice start. :)
About the problem: it has todo with having (or rather, not having :P) the 'good' boot files only. Here, i'm afraid i can't help you further, because we aren't allowed to distribute the boot files.
Check these posts: http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=ign6vrughvlr0e7n723dmbjns7&topic=13988.msg295069#msg295069 and see if they can help you.
Keep on trying...
-
I tried getting again the boot files,changing Operating system, but it always do the same....
-
NOOOOO, IT WORKED !!!!! I simply took a boot2 from ti-planet AND IT WORKED, THANKS A LOT SPIROH YOU ARE AWESOME, LOVE YOU <3
(http://i.imgur.com/55hB6JU.png)
-
How is that different from the normal, expected behaviour ? :P
-
!!! I simply took a boot2 from ti-planet AND IT WORKED, ...
I'm glad you did it! :)
I can see that you had some problems using the 'boot2.img' obtained using 'Polydumper' (can you confirm this?). BTW, sometime ago, i've posted an alternative method to extract 'boot2.img' directly from the TI-OS flash archive
http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=9qpdlk3kkdho2nc4389iqnt5n7&topic=16325.msg294293#msg294293 . To be able to help out people with similar booting problems, it would be helpful if you could also try this boot2-work-around and confirm if it also works.
-
Yeah, actually I find this.. strange... The problem is due to the boot 2 file from polyDumper (maybe because I'm using Nlaunch ?), but I when I was going to give up everything, I remembered that TI-Planet hosts some boot 2. img files, and... it worked.
-
Well, you could also just unzip the OS file, it contains the boot2 file.
-
Well, you could also just unzip the OS file, it contains the boot2 file.
True! That's what i meant in the second part of my previous post. ;)
-
Thanks a lot :p . It finally booted. I'm sorry of posting like that but there's still a problem :
(http://i.imgur.com/I4ggCpN.png)
Dear sir, could you share me link for download and guide to install on osx? Thanks a lot!
-
Regarding that orange skin, my suggestion would be to add some slightly darker orange border around the screen, because since the keys have a border/shadow, it kinda looks a little weird if the screen lacks any. It looks nice though!
-
Dear sir, could you share me link for download and guide to install on osx? Thanks a lot!
Hi (again) tien_huu,
The answer for nSpiKx will be roughly the same as i gave you for kArmTI. Actually, the start-up procedure is roughly the same as in kArmTI, and you should be able to use the karmti-quick-start guides. In the future, please always refer to the first page of a given topic, maybe you can find extra info there...
I like your interest in the calc emulators and wish you a nice stay at Omnimaga where you find a lot of friendly people ;) .
-
Dear sir,
I have succeeded booting OS with TICXCAS-3.6.0.550.tcc installed OS on kArmTI on Windows 8 and Mavericks OSX 10.9.2 . how to edit skin on MacOSX as Windows? Hope you could help me. Thanks a lot!
-
Moreover, could you reupload the download link for nSpiKx version 0.51? Thanks a lot!
-
I have succeeded booting OS with TICXCAS-3.6.0.550.tcc installed OS on kArmTI on Windows 8 and Mavericks OSX 10.9.2 .
Great, you are a clever guy! :)
how to edit skin on MacOSX as Windows? Hope you could help me. Thanks a lot!
Sorry, you can't! nSpiKx is not as developed as kArmTI! I mean, there's no skin editor for nSpiKx. However, you can play around a bit with the frame colors.
Moreover, could you reupload the download link for nSpiKx version 0.51? Thanks a lot!
Well, the attachment-download link on this page: http://www.omnimaga.org/ti-nspire-projects/nspikx-ti-nspire-emulator-for-mac-os-x-(cocoa)/msg341638/#msg341638 is working just fine!
Anyway, here it goes again: nSpiKx_v05_1.zip: http://www.omnimaga.org/ti-nspire-projects/nspikx-ti-nspire-emulator-for-mac-os-x-(cocoa)/?action=dlattach;attach=14861
Also, do not expect a lot from nSpiKx, because it's very much a project (now suspended for sometime...) in its early development stages. Thanks for your interest. Hope it helps. ;)
-
I have succeeded booting OS with TICXCAS-3.6.0.550.tcc installed OS on kArmTI on Windows 8 and Mavericks OSX 10.9.2 .
Great, you are a clever guy! :)
how to edit skin on MacOSX as Windows? Hope you could help me. Thanks a lot!
Sorry, you can't! nSpiKx is not as developed as kArmTI! I mean, there's no skin editor for nSpiKx. However, you can play around a bit with the frame colors.
Moreover, could you reupload the download link for nSpiKx version 0.51? Thanks a lot!
Well, the attachment-download link on this page: http://www.omnimaga.org/ti-nspire-projects/nspikx-ti-nspire-emulator-for-mac-os-x-(cocoa)/msg341638/#msg341638 is working just fine!
Anyway, here it goes again: nSpiKx_v05_1.zip: http://www.omnimaga.org/ti-nspire-projects/nspikx-ti-nspire-emulator-for-mac-os-x-(cocoa)/?action=dlattach;attach=14861
Also, do not expect a lot from nSpiKx, because it's very much a project (now suspended for sometime...) in its early development stages. Thanks for your interest. Hope it helps. ;)
Thanks for your kind response. I use both nSpiKx on osx and kArmTI on win8. Nice work! Hope nSpiKx will be developed as kArmTI in the future!
-
Hi,
Just wanted to let you know (if you didn't already) that on Yosemite, the screen is black (however, when screenshotting with the menu, the screenshot is fine)
-
Hi,
Just wanted to let you know (if you didn't already) that on Yosemite, the screen is black (however, when screenshotting with the menu, the screenshot is fine)
Hi Adriweb,
Thanks for letting me know about it. Actually, I haven't tried yet the 'Yosemite' thing. Unfortunately, they keep changing 'basic' things with every new version what makes backward compatibility hard. As a developer, you need a lot of patience to keep track with Mac OS changes and sometimes new bugs. Right now, i'm pretty busy with professional stuff, but when i have a little more time i'll surely have a look at it.