Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calc-Related Projects and Ideas => TI-Nspire => Topic started by: compu on June 07, 2012, 01:44:59 am
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This tool gives you access to selected Nspire documents while in Press-To-Test mode.
Installation
- Place pttkiller.tns in ndless/startup
- Create a folder called "ptt"
- Drop documents you want to use in it
On every boot you will be asked if you want to enable access to documents.
If you are not in PTT mode, just press "No" or hold ESC while booting to skip the popup.
Sadly, Ndless programs won't work in PTT mode.
Edit: Files removed by administrative decision.
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hmm, this is exactly what TÏ does not want us to do. it's nice, but this will certainly make that ndless gets blocked in the future too..
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hmm, this is exactly what TÏ does not want us to do. it's nice, but this will certainly make that ndless gets blocked in the future too..
This.
Also, it seems that 3.2 has no downgrade protection. Maybe they are starting to trust us a bit and right after you create this tool. Not a good idea IMO
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Oh no... please...
We argued very hard with TI and finally they let us the possibility to downgrade 3.2 to 3.1 and install Ndless...
And you release something like this? Do you want another OS update in august/septembre which will block downgrade to 3.1?
:(
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What can I say ... ?
Good for a technical point of view, sure, but it can only separate even more the community from TI since this tool is really pointless for most of us here who don't use PTT ...
I guess the whole point of this is to annoy TI, but then how would you dare (not you specifically but you know what I mean) requesting some more openness from TI ?
:(
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Also, this tool will probably be used by people to cheat. I know cheaters will find a way, but that doesn't mean we should make it easier for them.
I can understand in some ways that you are angry at TI and release it, but I disagree.
This will give TI finally a good reason to block us.
Edit: But of course I respect the work you put in it...
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Nice. Of course it will be used for cheating, that's obvious. But it isn't like people aren't already cheating as much as they want.
Technically very well done. Should put good ole TI on the edge, I guess they'll finally realize how vulnerable they can be. Of course you can just use this as a scapegoat for everything bad that happens. I won't go into the morality of cheating, nor do I really give a shit about people who do, many of them will have massive obstacles to tackle at some point or the other anyway, and they'll fall like rocks.
EDIT: So the exammode folder had indeed something to do with the PTT mode! Amazingly simple to bypass.
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Yeah, the PTT implementation is a complete piece of crap. It's so easy to tamper with it that it isn't even funny.
TI can only be happy that hardly anybody is interested in the Nspire: no Linux port, advanced program loader and advanced graphics library came two years after the initial availability of arbitrary native code execution, and hardly any reverse-engineering on the PTT anti-feature. However, despite the advance warnings, the news that OS 3.2 would block the third generation of Ndless was the last straw that broke the camel's back...
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I bet a few of you guys already knew how shitty their PTT was all along, but did not bother to make a move.
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I bet a few of you guys already knew how shitty their PTT was all along, but did not bother to make a move.
AFAICT, while we thought that TI had probably made a huge piece of shit (history told us that they often make huge pieces of shit ^^), proofs of that came only through reverse-engineering, in the last few months.
"Last few months", as in after my warnings to top-level execs not to behave stupidly, and the subsequent silly stance on plugging, no matter the potential consequences (as I outlined to them: making it more likely that the Nspire series goes the way of the PS3 !), the hole used in the third iteration of Ndless.
The fact that such wobbly pieces of infrastructure as the Nspire's PTT are accepted as restrictions for tests shows how incompetent the standardized test regulation authorities, how incompetent and malicious TI is (if they do not know that they make a crappy job, they're incompetent; if they know it, but go forward with the crappy scheme before the regulation authorities, they're malicious)... and for short, how silly and inefficient the whole concept of making a PTT mode is.
Neither making a PTT mode, nor making a closed platform that defaults to trying and prevent (more accurately, trying and failing to prevent) access to native code, are a requirement for getting a calculator allowed in standardized tests...
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Seriously Compu,
We all respect the work you've put in OSLauncher and PTTKiller.
But you have to respect other coders too. They have coded nDoom, gbc4nspire, nSDL, NESpire, mviewer, nPlayer, nspiremovieplayer, nclock, and I am surely forgetting some. You can't just destroy all of it by releasing this tool. That would be very disrespectful. Think about Chockosta: he had everything to make a MineCraft clone but felt demotivated because of TI's actions. I don't want to say that it is your fault but still.
Moreover, all of your tools need nDless, so you are just harming yourself doing this.
So please, edit your post. You can say "I managed to kill PTT" but please, I am begging you, remove the attachement.
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Hey, what is it with people trying to make compu and myself feel guilty ? TI will keep trying (and failing) to lock stuff down, no matter what. PTT tampering programs could have been released months ago, but people waited until they showed disrespect to us (by closing the hole used by the third iteration of Ndless) to release stuff that TI doesn't want.
The ones which are disrespectful in the first place are TI, not compu or myself !
but please, I am begging you, remove the attachement.
I think that this is a very bad idea, because it would make the (legal !) attachment much more prized, and would end up increasing the distribution of the attachment. Witness what happened with the TI-Z80 & TI-68k signing keys ;)
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Hey, what is it with people trying to make compu feel guilty ? TI will keep trying (and failing) to lock stuff down, no matter what.
You don't know about the future. And we still can try to get the future we want. But of course that if we release exactly what TI doesn't want, you say right.
PTT tampering programs could have been released months ago, but people waited until they showed disrespect to us (by closing the hole used by the third iteration of Ndless)
Then Compu waited to see that OS 3.2 was in fact not blocked to release a bad tool so that TI blocks the next OS.
but please, I am begging you, remove the attachement.
I think that this is a very bad idea, because it would make the (legal !) attachment much more prized, and would end up increasing the distribution of the attachment. Witness what happened with the TI-Z80 & TI-68k signing keys ;)
You are right, this attachement should never have existed.
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And we still can try to get the future we want.
Be realistic: in today's and tomorrow's education market, there's no way we can.
The attachment would certainly never had existed if TI had not willfully chosen to keep going on a risky path...
BTW: the previous time I loaded this page, there were 11 downloads of the attachment. Now, there are more than 15...
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Well you konw what ? I am glad I received my Prizm yesterday.
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Lionel, I'm not trying to make anyone of you feel bad.
However, I think it's not a good idea, because it might make matters for people using the TI-Nspire much worse.
I know that you (and compu probably) are angry at TI, but doing this is in my opinion not a good step.
The sole reason why they block Ndless is to prevent these things. While we did not even do it before, this might make them lock the device down even more.
And then we can start looking at a Lua only future for the TI-Nspire.
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But you have to respect other coders too. They have coded nDoom, gbc4nspire, nSDL, NESpire, mviewer, nPlayer, nspiremovieplayer, nclock, and I am surely forgetting some. You can't just destroy all of it by releasing this tool. That would be very disrespectful. Think about Chockosta: he had everything to make a MineCraft clone but felt demotivated because of TI's actions. I don't want to say that it is your fault but still.
Moreover, all of your tools need nDless, so you are just harming yourself doing this.
Are you serious? I am guilty for TIs actions and disrespectful to other coders?
I had this finished like months ago, but waited for this release. Ndless is blocked, downgrade protection will probably be added in the next OS anyway, so why should I suck up to TI?
You can't blame me for TIs stupidity; They always tried to block Ndless, even before I was in the calc programming scene.
However, I think it's not a good idea, because it might make matters for people using the TI-Nspire much worse.
I know that you (and compu probably) are angry at TI, but doing this is in my opinion not a good step.
The sole reason why they block Ndless is to prevent these things. While we did not even do it before, this might make them lock the device down even more.
And then we can start looking at a Lua only future for the TI-Nspire.
The funny thing is that they always tried to block Ndless, even when no such tools were available. So it is indifferent if we release these tools or not.
Well you konw what ? I am glad I received my Prizm yesterday.
So, this is the end of Nspire programming?
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Indeed, they blocked it before such tools where available, in order to prevent it. (Not that I am defending them)
But, this program might make things worse. That's all I'm trying to say.
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Well you konw what ? I am glad I received my Prizm yesterday.
So, this is the end of Nspire programming?
No because I am sure you'll be able to write PTTKiller with Lua.
downgrade protection will probably be removed in the next OS anyway, so why should I suck up to TI?
Of course it will now. You could have waited a bit more before releasing this. Now I really see you as the one who destroyed the tiny hope there was. There was just a little moment where the Nspire were not blocked. Maybe TI already had in mind to block them or maybe they wanted to make them open but now we'll never even know since you released this and they will be blocked with no doubt.
You can't blame me for TIs stupidity
No. And I won't post the sentence I have in mind.
They always tried to block Ndless, even before I was in the calc programming scene.
Yes, but as Jim said, your programs make things worse.
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I think that TI just got what they deserved.
Since the TI-Nspire release, they did almost everything that they could do in order to prevent us to play with native code.
So congrats compu, I really hope that a lot of students will use this.
I also hope that a new OSlauncher will be created to work with all the Nspires. If I were skilled enough, I would try do do it.
I perfectly understand Hayleia's point of view, but I don't hope anymore that TI will change.
(They sure made great efforts to communicate with the community, but their actions about Ndless did not change at all)
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Back to Earth guys, we've been over this already. If you want to keep sucking TI's corporate dick, fine, but don't go around judging other guys' acts based on your deluded ideas. There's no "tiny hope", there's no "worse". TI would've and will always block Ndless. Haleya, maybe you're right, we should wait until the third millennium (but please don't do anything bad meanwhile, otherwise we'll never know), because who knows, maybe TI will open up the Nspire.
I'm not too fond of the age argument, but I can only wish for you guys to grow up and see a bit further and broader, maybe a big cup of realism would do some good.
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Now that the two opposite, irreconciliable points of view (pragmatists watching facts and thinking that TI stinks, and TI's minions) have been expressed by multiple persons... how about stopping the discussion on the matter ?
If we keep going on like that, we'll provide a magnificent, but wasteful show of division, and TI will be spreeing with glee: they'll have succeeded in belittling the community even more than the March announcement of OS 3.2 closing the hole used by the third iteration of Ndless already did... while the only reasonable answer to their disrespect is to keep pushing back, which is more efficient with a more united community !
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Yeah, the discussion seems useless in fact. Keep cheating and learn Lua.
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Good work, nice to see new Nspire projects!
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Of course it will now. You could have waited a bit more before releasing this. Now I really see you as the one who destroyed the tiny hope there was. There was just a little moment where the Nspire were not blocked. Maybe TI already had in mind to block them or maybe they wanted to make them open but now we'll never even know since you released this and they will be blocked with no doubt.
If they block downgrading it most likely won't be because this. I know TI has active communication with the community, but I guess they aren't screening fora all day to check if there is "malicious" software released. They have "better" things to do. (Luckily)
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As far as I know, most major standardized tests (The SAT/ACT for one) and their proctors do not even know about PTT on the Nspire or even the 83/84...
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As far as I know, most major standardized tests (The SAT/ACT for one) and their proctors do not even know about PTT on the Nspire or even the 83/84...
Actually, they do, and it's one of the point of it.
Don't think TI put a led pu there for fun :P
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Well just saying from my experience test proctors in the SAT and the AP tests don't do anything and only the more tech-savvy teachers will even realize that you can cheat on a graphing calculator. And even then their solution (at least in my school) is to take away the calc, they don't know anything about PTT. I guess I can't speak for everyone, having only this one-school viewpoint but I find it hard to believe that the majority of teachers and test proctors know about PTT