Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calc-Related Projects and Ideas => TI Z80 => Topic started by: Deep Toaster on September 17, 2010, 11:31:32 pm
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Just had an idea: Since almost all TI-related emulators are still alpha or beta and are getting updated often, some people might not want to go through the process of downloading each time. What if we made an emulator (at least for Z80 calcs) in Flash? It'd be really convenient, and all anyone would need is an Internet connection (and Flash plugin, but that's everywhere nowadays) to use the latest version. It'd be a really quick tester, for example to see if a program still works after transfer. Anyone willing to give this a try?
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It might be nice but it would be hard to compete with the already good ones out there.
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There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
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He means, I think, about ones like Wabbit. So just emulators in general.
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Well, the good thing about Flash is that it works on just about every system. I was kinda stumped on Ubuntu because I couldn't get the newest version of GTK, and now that I'm using Chrome OS, I need something on the browser :P
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No I meant offline. I guess it could maybe be useful for someone who got Flash but cannot or don't want to install stuff tho. However a lot of public computers have flash blocked, same for Java.
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Ya, offline, that's what I meant. I just couldn't think of the word. I said in general because I thought all current ones were offline.
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Java would actually be better suited for this, IMO. It was actually designed to be a computer language, whereas flash was originally just for movies, then expanded to games.
It would be nice. Might be some rom issues though (unless you accessed TI's site to get it every time, from the SDK :P)
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Yeah, I was thinking Java would probably work better, but a lot fewer browsers support Java by default (read: I can't get Java to work in Chromium).
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Online TI emulators could be a good idea, but don't put it too public, I already see DMCA notices coming from everywhere.
And DJ, I don't really know a lot of public computers with Flash and Java blocked. I can watch YouTube and everything on school computers.
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Online TI emulators could be a good idea, but don't put it too public, I already see DMCA notices coming from everywhere.
Well, what if we make the user upload his own ROM?
And DJ, I don't really know a lot of public computers with Flash and Java blocked. I can watch YouTube and everything on school computers.
Hmm, over here, they block individual websites instead of plugins.
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Online TI emulators could be a good idea, but don't put it too public, I already see DMCA notices coming from everywhere.
Well, what if we make the user upload his own ROM?
Yeah, could be a solution.
And DJ, I don't really know a lot of public computers with Flash and Java blocked. I can watch YouTube and everything on school computers.
Hmm, over here, they block individual websites instead of plugins.
Here as well.
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Did you install the jre package? That's going to be your problem. Try OpenJDK if you can't find "official" java packages, it's even by oracle!
Hint: Chromium is based on ubuntu :P so, ctrl-alt-F4 should take you to a terminal (hopefully) login and type in
sudo apt-get install java
Edit: oh, and don't forget to restart your PC. Your power button should still work.
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Online TI emulators could be a good idea, but don't put it too public, I already see DMCA notices coming from everywhere.
And DJ, I don't really know a lot of public computers with Flash and Java blocked. I can watch YouTube and everything on school computers.
Weird, maybe things changed. In my case, Flash was usually uninstalled and blocked x.x
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Online TI emulators could be a good idea, but don't put it too public, I already see DMCA notices coming from everywhere.
And DJ, I don't really know a lot of public computers with Flash and Java blocked. I can watch YouTube and everything on school computers.
Weird, maybe things changed. In my case, Flash was usually uninstalled and blocked x.x
It probably just mostly depends where in the world you are and what public place you are. Like here I've never seen a computer with something other than websites blocked (besides like taking away certain computer things like command window and such).
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Yeah over here they were weird. They blocked Flash at some places and even NOTEPAD. At other places everything else worked but you couldn't download zip files.
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What if we made an emulator (at least for Z80 calcs) in Flash?
It might be nice but it would be hard to compete with the already good ones out there.
I agree. The existing emulators do not necessarily require admin privileges to install and work for emulation purposes. Linking purposes are different, because everything that requires installing a driver (both TI-Connect and TILP for SilverLink, 84+ DirectLink, 89T DirectLink, Nspire) requires administrator privileges.
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Well, the emulator I am working on is portable, and I was planning on implementing it in Silverlight...
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Well, the emulator I am working on is portable, and I was planning on implementing it in Silverlight...
Which emulator are you working on ?
There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
Yes, there are!
Here is an online Java emulator for the latest TI scientific calculators using the 4-bits T4x core from Toshiba (TI-30XB/XS MultiView, TI-34 MultiView, TI-Collège Plus):
http://xandrean.free.fr/T4X/TIScientific.html
To get the needed ROMs, you'll need:
- the official emulators from TI (to extract the ROMs from them, as those calculators have no link port)
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1426
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1359
- this tool to extract the ROMs (it will work even with an expired/invalid licence)
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1844
Have fun!
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He is working on a calc emu for his tiDE project because none of the existing ones can be used with his software for development. I'm not sure anymore what exactly but I know it was due to something related to that.
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DJ Omnimaga is right, none of the currently available emulators work the way I want to use them with tiDE, so I'm writing my own. However, I'm writing it as a library, so you can use it from any program, making it easy to port to something like Silverlight.
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Did you install the jre package? That's going to be your problem. Try OpenJDK if you can't find "official" java packages, it's even by oracle!
Hint: Chromium is based on ubuntu :P so, ctrl-alt-F4 should take you to a terminal (hopefully) login and type in
sudo apt-get install java
Edit: oh, and don't forget to restart your PC. Your power button should still work.
Oh? Haven't tried that yet :P
By the way, how do you quit the terminal?
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It's ctrl-alt-F7, or possibly F8.
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Well, the emulator I am working on is portable, and I was planning on implementing it in Silverlight...
Which emulator are you working on ?
There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
Yes, there are!
Here is an online Java emulator for the latest TI scientific calculators using the 4-bits T4x core from Toshiba (TI-30XB/XS MultiView, TI-34 MultiView, TI-Collège Plus):
http://xandrean.free.fr/T4X/TIScientific.html
There is also TI8XEmu, a flash emulator which emulate ti82, ti83 and ti85. You can download it here : http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1414 (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1414).
You can also try a modified version of this emulator by Critor on my website : http://www.tisoftwares.net16.net/emulateur.html (http://www.tisoftwares.net16.net/emulateur.html) ; this special version runs with my own ROM, so you don't have to load yours. ;)
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Well, the emulator I am working on is portable, and I was planning on implementing it in Silverlight...
Which emulator are you working on ?
There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
Yes, there are!
Here is an online Java emulator for the latest TI scientific calculators using the 4-bits T4x core from Toshiba (TI-30XB/XS MultiView, TI-34 MultiView, TI-Collège Plus):
http://xandrean.free.fr/T4X/TIScientific.html
There is also TI8XEmu, a flash emulator which emulate ti82, ti83 and ti85. You can download it here : http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1414 (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1414).
You can also try a modified version of this emulator by Critor on my website : http://www.tisoftwares.net16.net/emulateur.html (http://www.tisoftwares.net16.net/emulateur.html) ; this special version runs with my own ROM, so you don't have to load yours. ;)
Did you code the entire ROM yourself, though? If it uses TI's source code, it would be against Omnimaga (and 1and1) policies to redistribute here.
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There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
Yes, there are!
Here is an online Flash emulator for TI graphic calculators using a z80 CPU:
http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html
This time, it's not made by me, but by Brandon Meyer.
This emulator only accept ROMs that it knows.
It's got a MD5 checksum list.
(Why? The author used this to select the right emulation mode.)
It means, if a new ROM or patch is released, you need to add its checksum.
Unfortunately, Brandon has stopped updating his blog for months, and hasn't answered my emails for over a year. His blog even went offline for some weeks last year...
So I had to modify the sources and rehost the files myself to improve the number of supported ROMs.
The emulator only supports old non-Flash calculators: TI-82, TI-83, TI-85, and even TI-81 through a trick.
Supported and working ROMs are up to now:
TI-82: 10.0 11.0 16.0 17.0 18.0 19.0 19.006
TI-83: 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.10 1.10001
TI-82Stats: 1.10001 (select a TI-83 ROM type)
TI-82Stats.fr: 1.11fr7 (select a TI-83 ROM type)
TI-76.fr: 1.00fr5 (select a TI-83 ROM type)
TI-85: 2.0 3.0A 4.0 5.0 6.0 8.0 9.0 10.0
TI-81: V2.0V (concatenate 4 identical copies of the file, and select a TI-82 ROM type - this is working because TI-81 calculators with the V2.0V ROM were using a motherboard identical to the first TI-82 calculators, but with the mini-jack plug and some related components missing/unsoldered)
If you want to test a ROM not listed here or a modified/patched ROM, just email me its MD5 checksum.
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Did you code the entire ROM yourself, though? If it uses TI's source code, it would be against Omnimaga (and 1and1) policies to redistribute here.
Don't worry DJ : "my" emulator is >9000% legal.
In fact, the emulator loads my ROMs from my server instead of loading user's ROM. So ROM are not distributed, thus it's legal. ;)
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Well, the emulator I am working on is portable, and I was planning on implementing it in Silverlight...
Er... if portability (in the common sense of that word when it is applied to software development) is your number one goal, Silverlight is a poor choice.
In general, Microsoft's attempts at re-coding an alternative to, or an incompatible version of, existing technologies made by others (besides Silverlight, a.k.a Microsoft's Flash, let's mention, between others, Microsoft's PDF competitor that hardly anybody uses, Microsoft's OOXML format while an open standard did already exist and could have been improved instead, or the older Microsoft Java that Sun legally smacked down because Microsoft made an incompatible version that they called "Java", which is forbidden by the specs), are bad ideas for portability ;)
All of Java, Flash, and even C++ (with a good toolkit, such as Qt) are better choices for portability than Silverlight is...
I'm no primary anti-Microsoft shill (if I were, I'd start by writing various insulting acronyms instead of "Microsoft"), I'm not incapable of understanding that other development goals, personal preferences, or just past personal experience, can lead to use Microsoft's technologies - but in any case, you shouldn't mention "portable" in the same sentence as one of Microsoft's technologies ;)
[EDIT: "that" -> "any" in the last sentence.]
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Did you code the entire ROM yourself, though? If it uses TI's source code, it would be against Omnimaga (and 1and1) policies to redistribute here.
All links included in my posts today are either ROM-free, either official (TI web site).
For both online emulators (z80 (http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html) and T4x (http://xandrean.free.fr/T4X/TIScientific.html)), the user has to provide his own ROM-file, like with any offline emulator.
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Well, the emulator I am working on is portable, and I was planning on implementing it in Silverlight...
Er... if portability (in the common sense of that word when it is applied to software development) is your number one goal, Silverlight is a poor choice.
In general, Microsoft's attempts at re-coding an alternative to, or an incompatible version of, existing technologies made by others (besides Silverlight, a.k.a Microsoft's Flash, let's mention, between others, Microsoft's PDF competitor that hardly anybody uses, Microsoft's OOXML format while an open standard did already exist and could have been improved instead, or the older Microsoft Java that Sun legally smacked down because Microsoft made an incompatible version that they called "Java", which is forbidden by the specs), are bad ideas for portability ;)
All of Java, Flash, and even C++ (with a good toolkit, such as Qt) are better choices for portability than Silverlight is...
I'm no primary anti-Microsoft shill (if I were, I'd start by writing various insulting acronyms instead of "Microsoft"), I'm not incapable of understanding that other development goals, personal preferences, or just past personal experience, can lead to use Microsoft's technologies - but in any case, you shouldn't mention "portable" in the same sentence as one of Microsoft's technologies ;)
[EDIT: "that" -> "any" in the last sentence.]
Let's not bash Microsoft now. Silverlight is incredibly powerful, and I've used it in a professional setting for tons of things. I meant portability across several platforms, Silverlight being one of them. And for the record, Silverlight runs on Windows, Linux, Mac, and the Windows Phone 7. Frankly, I find the amount of bashing people do to the technologies I use most on calculator forums insulting and rude.
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Silverlight doesn't run on linux. Mono does. Not the same thing. :( for one thing it doesn't let me watch netflix in linux :P
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*sigh* Moonlight runs on Linux, which supports all but the latest version of Silverlight, and they are working on the latest version. The reality is that most computers run Windows, and you have to conform to your audience.
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*sigh* Moonlight runs on Linux, which supports all but the latest version of Silverlight, and they are working on the latest version. The reality is that most computers run Windows, and you have to conform to your audience.
Since Willrandship just said he cannot get it to work under Linux without mono, care about proving your post saying it does work by helping him getting it to run without mono?
Anyway to everyone, let's not start a Windows vs Linux debate thing or any language/software war. If someone wants to make an emulator in the language he wants using the software he wants, it's his own choice.Did you code the entire ROM yourself, though? If it uses TI's source code, it would be against Omnimaga (and 1and1) policies to redistribute here.
All links included in my posts today are either ROM-free, either official (TI web site).
For both online emulators (z80 (http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html) and T4x (http://xandrean.free.fr/T4X/TIScientific.html)), the user has to provide his own ROM-file, like with any offline emulator.
Ah ok cool
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At the risk of going off-topic just a bit: What exactly is Silverlight and what does it do?
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it's just another plugin like flash and java. it's produced by microsoft and is used much less often(i've only seen it utilized for a few games)
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I meant portability across several platforms, Silverlight being one of them.
Do you mean that you want to use a common core, presumably developed in another language, and interfaced with from Silverlight or other languages interoperable with the language of the common core ?
Frankly, I find the amount of bashing people do to the technologies I use most on calculator forums insulting and rude.
If someone wants to make an emulator in the language he wants using the software he wants, it's his own choice.
As you can see in my previous post, I acknowledged that there are reasons for choosing Microsoft's technologies, among which personal preference and personal experience, because I know that SirCmpwn is experienced with Microsoft's technologies ;)
However, reaching the widest possible audience, without extra setup from the users, is not one of them:
The reality is that most computers run Windows, and you have to conform to your audience.
Sure, it's a fact that most computers run Windows, and it's obviously a good thing to try conforming oneself to one's audience (only a minority of extremists refuse to understand that). But another fact is that there are ways to target a Windows audience which are more widely used than Silverlight is...
it's just another plugin like flash and java. it's produced by microsoft and is used much less often (i've only seen it utilized for a few games)
From a user's point of view, that's about it, indeed.
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Silverlight is listed in the Windows update list. I assume if it has a much lower audience than Windows then Silverlight is optional, then?
Anyway as I said in my previous post let's quit the whole software thing. He can use WHATEVER he wants to code his project. Thank you.
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I started something like this a couple weeks ago.
I'm not using flash, I'm using a plugin-based wabbitemu running on a daemon in the backend of my server, then feeding the output to the client VIA ajax.
I have it working, but due to bandwidth restraints, I can't really post it anywhere yet. I'm hoping to get it on my home server once I can get that set up, which should be either tomorrow or Tuesday.
I'll post a link when I get it up
Sorry if I'm thread hijacking, heh.
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How much bandwidth can you use per month on your home server? I remember seeing the emu on IRC but I haven't used it much. It seemed a bit slow, though.Do you think that can be improved?
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I can push around 150GB/mo off of my home server. I did the math, and my server will run out of resources(memory) well before I hit that point with it.
Also, I can most likely get better performance out of it, what I showed you was mostly just a proof of concept that it could be done.
Oh, and silverlight is optional in everything before Windows 7, I believe. It must be optional in XP, because XP is older than silverlight, and I believe Vista is too. I can't recall if it comes in 7 or not.
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Yeah I have it installed. I forgot if it was optional or not, though. I had it in XP too
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The major issue with a client-side (flash, java, silverlight, etc...) emulator, though, is that the ROM would have to be sent along with it, or the user would have to select their own. If it's sent along, then it'd be illegal. If it's their own, then they might as well just use a normal emulator.
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The major issue with a client-side (flash, java, silverlight, etc...) emulator, though, is that the ROM would have to be sent along with it, or the user would have to select their own. If it's sent along, then it'd be illegal. If it's their own, then they might as well just use a normal emulator.
There are many situations where you cannot use a normal emulator you know.
(no administrator priviledges / school computer, DLL conflict, no compatibility with your current OS...)
In those cases, an online portable Java/Flash emulator is the best choice.
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The major issue with a client-side (flash, java, silverlight, etc...) emulator, though, is that the ROM would have to be sent along with it, or the user would have to select their own. If it's sent along, then it'd be illegal. If it's their own, then they might as well just use a normal emulator.
There are many situations where you cannot use a normal emulator you know.
(no administrator priviledges / school computer, DLL conflict, no compatibility with your current OS...)
In those cases, an online portable Java/Flash emulator is the best choice.
That's about it, and for portability reasons.
There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
Yes, there are!
Here is an online Flash emulator for TI graphic calculators using a z80 CPU:
http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html
This time, it's not made by me, but by Brandon Meyer.
Wow, I didn't know about that one. Thanks!
Would it be possible to emulate a flashed calc, though? 83+/84+(SE)s are really needed.
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Since Willrandship just said he cannot get it to work under Linux without mono, care about proving your post saying it does work by helping him getting it to run without mono?
Well, firstly, you should open the terminal and type "sudo apt-get mono" to make sure you have mono, then go to a website with Silverlight enabled (such as silverlinux.sourceforge.net (http://silverlinux.sourceforge.net)). It will prompt you to install Silverlight. Click on their link, and it will walk you through the rest of the process.
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There are online emulators? o.o I'm a bit behind, sorry.
Yes, there are!
Here is an online Flash emulator for TI graphic calculators using a z80 CPU:
http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html
This time, it's not made by me, but by Brandon Meyer.
Wow, I didn't know about that one. Thanks!
Would it be possible to emulate a flashed calc, though? 83+/84+(SE)s are really needed.
The short answer is "not yet".
The long answer, now:
Yes, TI-83+/84+ online emulation would be great, as those models are still available in shops.
But...
Brandon (Meyer) has been inactive online for months now, and his emulator hasn't been updated by him for over a year (last update of his blog in february 2010, last update of his emulator in may 2009).
(as he suddenly stopped answering me, I had to update myself and rehost the whole project)
The last news i got, was that he was working on adding TI-86 emulation, but was having problems with the RAM page switching specific to that model... but this was in may 2009!!! Updates are now very improbable...
I'm not able to maintain the core of its code myself.
If anybody wants to take back... it's released under GPL.
Just right-click on the emulator to get the sources in the popup menu.
You'll need to download Adobe Flex Builder too.
Although it might be easier to restart a new online z80 emulator from scratch to my advice, than modifying this one which allready has problems with the TI-86 support...
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Like I said, I'm working on a TI-83/84+ emulation library that I plan to run in Silverlight. Anyone who has or is willing to install Silverlight (i.e. anyone with Windows 7) can use it easily.
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Like I said, I'm working on a TI-83/84+ emulation library that I plan to run in Silverlight. Anyone who has or is willing to install Silverlight (i.e. anyone with Windows 7) can use it easily.
I don't have Windows 7 :(
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Since Willrandship just said he cannot get it to work under Linux without mono, care about proving your post saying it does work by helping him getting it to run without mono?
Well, firstly, you should open the terminal and type "sudo apt-get mono" to make sure you have mono, then go to a website with Silverlight enabled (such as silverlinux.sourceforge.net (http://silverlinux.sourceforge.net)). It will prompt you to install Silverlight. Click on their link, and it will walk you through the rest of the process.
Ah ok. It's because your other post seemed like you implied Silverlight can work on Linux without Mono installed, so I asked if you could point him to the right direction (as a proof). Does the one in that link works without it?
Like I said, I'm working on a TI-83/84+ emulation library that I plan to run in Silverlight. Anyone who has or is willing to install Silverlight (i.e. anyone with Windows 7) can use it easily.
I don't have Windows 7 :(
Silverlight is also available on XP and most likely Vista, so the emulator should probably work on them too (unless it requires some tweaking?)
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Like I said, I'm working on a TI-83/84+ emulation library that I plan to run in Silverlight. Anyone who has or is willing to install Silverlight (i.e. anyone with Windows 7) can use it easily.
I don't have Windows 7 :(
Windows 7 comes with Silverlight, which is why I mentioned it. You can still install it on XP, Vista, most Linux distros, and Mac.
DJ, the link requires Silverlight, and will prompt you to install if needed.
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Aw... I thought you were using pure .NET, i.e. C# .NET. :( SilverLight on Linux is painful, not mentioning somewhat non-existent atm. Curse Micro$oft for their greed and refusal to support Linux. And yes, I've tried the plugin myself, and my verdict? Better off with an blank plugin that does nothing than installing 50 MB of stuff that doesn't work. :P
Moonlight is the Linux counterpart for Silverlight, found here: http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
It's great to see this project as an alternative to that dead Flash based emulator (I have Windows XP too!), but do keep in mind that Silverlight is not installed on any school computers, therefore nobody can access it from school. It's great (and a awesome app!) for people locked out at home! :)
In the end though, my Linux side is feeling pretty sad considering the only emulator on Linux is TiLEM, which is crappy (100% CPU on a laptop tends to kill laptops and start fires). (WINE + Wabbitemu doesn't help either)
Good luck SirCmpwn on your project! :) I'm looking forward to your progress and a working beta to play around with. ;)
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I got a working beta of mine running at http://webbitemu.netham45.org/
I haven't stress-tested it, so I don't know how well it's going to do. I have it running at ~30FPS from my server, so that may be a bit much too(perhaps lowering it to 15 FPS would be best.
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I tried the link twice and both times I got an error 404. :(
I clicked the new calculator link, but when it made the new room, I got the error.
Edit: Oddly enough, I changed the url to http://webbitemu.netham45.org/tiemu, then clicked the link and it worked.
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Aw... I thought you were using pure .NET, i.e. C# .NET.
It is pure .NET, it's a library. I can port it to run as any kind of program - desktop, silverlight, Zune, etc.
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I tried the link twice and both times I got an error 404. :(
I clicked the new calculator link, but when it made the new room, I got the error.
Edit: Oddly enough, I changed the url to http://webbitemu.netham45.org/tiemu, then clicked the link and it worked.
That was a weird glitch with FF, I've fixed it.
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It works ;D! ...but it's so slow :(
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Awesome! I was even able to run it from my Ipod just now.
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It works ;D! ...but it's so slow :(
Yeah the framerate/key detection speed seems very slow D:
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alberthrocks: though its developers are communicating less than they should, there's tilem-ng, which I mentioned several times on IRC ;)
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Is there any website about it? I wonder how well it is going?
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Besides the official site at http://sourceforge.net/projects/tilem/ , contra has recently posted (in French) information, including several Youtube videos, at http://tibank.forumactif.com/actualites-f7/tilem-2-vs-tilem-old-t5871.htm and http://tibank.forumactif.com/actualites-f7/tilem-feature-request-t5884.htm .
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Nice I'll go check these. Thanks for the links :)
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Any news of a working online TI-83+/84+ emulator?
The above WebbitEmu links don't seem to work any more.
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Nope :(
Anybody willing to try making one? Or maybe try updating http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html to support the calc with flash mem?
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There is also an online Java "TI-83" emulator, which would be more portable:
http://www.df.lth.se/~lft/entertainment/stranded/
But it is customised to run a specific assembly 83P file, and would need to be made more generic.
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Or maybe try updating http://xandrean.free.fr/TI8XEmu.html to support the calc with flash mem?
Seems it won't be possible to convert this one.
I've digged into it, and a part of the core of the emulator is only included as a precompiled library.
Of course, I've asked for the sources to Brandon Meyer, but didn't get a reply either.
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IIRC, Netham neatly sidestepped the legal issues by running the actual emulation on a server. By the way, the reason Netflix doesn't work with Linux is that it requires DRM. The Mono people aren't comfortable with some of the legal aspects of integrating DRM into their codebase.
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Was it because it provided the ROM? If the ROM had to be supplied by the user, would it be fine? I don't know about DRM and that stuff, though.
Also I think Netham45 issue was that his emulator took extreme amounts of bandwidth despite the low framerate and key response speed.
It could also be due to his recent server move, though.