Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calc-Related Projects and Ideas => TI Z80 => Topic started by: KisforKeyboard on November 03, 2010, 03:58:55 pm
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I used to play this game very much back in some time. So I wanted to make this game but I don't know if I will use graphics or not but what are some ideas you guys have?
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Hmm, something this advanced in Basic will be tricky, so I warn you that cards amount would be tricky. On that note, have you looked at Wizards? It was a asm calc card game that I <3
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I would say for your first project, start slow and do it in BASIC and make it Text-based. Graphics are cool, but whether a game is fun or not matters most :D
I would say that in the game, there are like 100 different cards, which you can hold about 15 in your deck at a time. You face other duelists to try and reach pegasus, who you have to beat to get your grandpa back :D (yeah -- I used to watch that series a long time ago, I used to love the original much more than the 3rd generation of pokemon :P)
If you need any help with the programming, then I'd be glad to help you!
EDIT: qazz is right, but I still think you should try it and come to us if you have any difficulties so we can help you :D
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sorry wrong message but i thought decks had 40 cards in them i think
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yeah, but in BASIC that much information will be a pain to store x.x
I would say keep it more limited for now, and once you got the card system working then go from there ;)
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well, of course a title screen could have good graphics without being totally hard, but the game should be text based :)
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quazz I agree completely ^
title screens are meant for being jazzed up, but text based game are the predominate type of BASIC games.
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ahem, *qazz, and that is not soo true, many basic games have some ascii graphics
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I can say with pretty good certainty this is one of those games that is incredibly hard to do, well, in TI-BASIC (whether it's text-based or not) just because of the shear amount of stats and rules.
If you want to stick as close to the actual game you have to remember you need to have names of the monsters, trap cards and magic cards, your life points (which would be easy), a way to tell if a card is in attack or defense mode, the statistics, and all that other info. That will just take a huge tole on memory. AppVar is a option you could do but I'm thinking you might have to use Hybrid TI-BASIC just because of size restraints. But I wish you the best of luck in what you want to do and will help in anyway I can, as will probably most people at Omni.
@ASHBAD
What do you mean text-based games are predominate in TI-BASIC?
Also, deck size wouldn't be that much of a toll on the program. You can just have a list with numbers corresponding to cards and have routines to shuffle. Then have a separate list for the Graveyard, or what ever it's called (I don't remember).
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ok I get it so I can start small and I can store things in variables so it won't be really hard
thanks for the ideas guys i'll work on it now
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Something like this would be a massive undertaking graphics or not. Not to mention that you have a pretty limited screen size to work with. :/
I don't know how well something like this would cross over to a calc. format unless it was extremely limited in it's implementation. Perhaps something similar? If you are interested in making a trading card game you should(as quazz said) take a look at Wizards: http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=80&start=585 (http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=80&start=585) (a download link of the latest version is several posts down). It's a Trading card game but in a scaled back much more simplistic format.
*Edit* wow, I got like super ninja'd but yea... :)
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
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AHEM *QAZZ
and on the subject of wizards, for the latest beta (second to last page methinks) there is no readme, so the game is confusing, so be sure to include a readme of how the game works ....
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I meant predominate as in most BASIC games are ASCII ;)
well, good luck on your game! :D
EDIT: and who gave me a -1 respect? >:( can you at least tell me why?
EDIT2: Well It's not in this post but I still want to know who did it >:(
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I saw wizards bt it was kind of confusing i don't get howto play...
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Kis, that;s the problem, I can't find a readme x.x if anyone find it, please give.
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
But you need a whole scripted special effect for every card except normal monster cards...
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sounds cool! if you made graphical stuff before, maybe you can make cards with Line( or something. ;) also, you can look at the Axe programming language, Yu-Gi-Oh would be perfect for Axe. ;) you could also use libs if you have more experience. ;)
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runer, that's a good point, that's probably going to be harder than keeping track of all the names and stars and stuff...
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
But you need a whole scripted special effect for every card except normal monster cards...
If statements in the main program loop can easily handle this. one overbearing if statement to see if the card is a trap card, then, depending upon the list index, nested if statements to select the correct animation.
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It's not animation or graphics that I'm worried about. It's the fact that every card has a different effect that will need its own code.
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It's not animation or graphics that I'm worried about. It's the fact that every card has a different effect that will need its own code.
Even thinking about the size this would take up scares me...even with Axe
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well, if you have a subroutine (inside the program BTW) for each card and each card only did one or two things, that wouldnt be soo bad..
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yeah well lots of earlier cards had no effects so it won't be too bad i guess
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Well you have to remember that some effects can be activated manually and some are automatic. So you'd have to check which one it is and then act accordingly. Plus each time a card is summoned you'd have to run a check and when it has died you'd have to run a check. Plus with each magic card doing something different that is a lot of If statements.
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
If he wanted to include pictures, he could also have a separate string with all of the pictures using RLE for the pic as well as a default card outline.
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
If he wanted to include pictures, he could also have a separate string with all of the pictures using RLE for the pic as well as a default card outline.
loading would be ridiculous though, since this is in basic.
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Well pictures could be pretty easy. He could just use a generic picture used for all monsters, all magic cards, and all trap cards. That way you only have to compress three images. Or you could have a couple for each. But that would save a lot of space instead of giving each it's own image.
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I meant predominate as in most BASIC games are ASCII ;)
ASCII and text-based are not the same thing. ASCII counts as graphics. Yes, a lot a BASIC games are ascii.
ASCII is one of the only options for graphics in pure BASIC. (in fact, if you want any sort of speed at all, you have to use letters and numbers and stuff).
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I meant predominate as in most BASIC games are ASCII ;)
ASCII and text-based are not the same thing. ASCII counts as graphics. Yes, a lot a BASIC games are ascii.
ASCII is one of the only options for graphics in pure BASIC. (in fact, if you want any sort of speed at all, you have to use letters and numbers and stuff).
just to clarify, if someone outside the context of a calculator game mentions "ASCII", it does not mean they are referring to graphics. they are referring to how numbers are encoded into letters.
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I meant predominate as in most BASIC games are ASCII ;)
ASCII and text-based are not the same thing. ASCII counts as graphics. Yes, a lot a BASIC games are ascii.
ASCII is one of the only options for graphics in pure BASIC. (in fact, if you want any sort of speed at all, you have to use letters and numbers and stuff).
Ya, they are completely different. Like Eeems new game is text-based because the game play is completely done by choosing option after option, however tifreak's Pokemon is token graphic based because tokens/characters are used for the graphics.
As for speed, I don't know. Dual Layers seem to be working pretty fast for you in IQ and Exodus used Text Sprites which is pretty fast ;) But I get what ya mean :P
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Well, if you don't want to display numbers/text at some point for the graphics, then you're stuck with drawing commands, which suck.
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
If he wanted to include pictures, he could also have a separate string with all of the pictures using RLE for the pic as well as a default card outline.
loading would be ridiculous though, since this is in basic.
It depends on how it's formatted. It's how the game engine for Battlefield runs and it's pretty fast for small strings.
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ok i think i got it just working on how it will work now and stuff :D
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sounds cool!
any chance of screenies soon?
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storing 40 cards wouldn't be too difficult. for each card you need:
-String name
-attack
-defense
-# of stars
-type. [trap card, monster card, etc]
attack and defense need about 2 digits of information each, # of stars can be modified for one, otherwise two. type can be one digit. that's 7 digits of information to be compressed into a list entry, and then the String name can probably be compressed into under 28 digits, which will fit into 2 list entries. then you'll just need a 300 element list for 100 card data, and at the beginning of the program decompress everything but the string names, which you can decompress on the fly. at least, that's my idea. would be infinitely more efficient in axe though. good luck with it!
If he wanted to include pictures, he could also have a separate string with all of the pictures using RLE for the pic as well as a default card outline.
loading would be ridiculous though, since this is in basic.
It depends on how it's formatted. It's how the game engine for Battlefield runs and it's pretty fast for small strings.
Battlefield?
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i don't know
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it's our team battle project. ;)
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Ah ok, sweet :)
And good luck on the game, KisforKeyboard.
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I meant predominate as in most BASIC games are ASCII ;)
well, good luck on your game! :D
EDIT: and who gave me a -1 respect? >:( can you at least tell me why?
EDIT2: Well It's not in this post but I still want to know who did it >:(
That post or another one? That one seemed ok so I just rated it up. If you mean another then I'm not sure, as everything's rated 0 it seems.
Anyway, to comment on the project idea, as a person who coded TI-BASIC for 9 years, I would like to warn that a Yu-Gi-Oh game might be a huge undertaking, especially coding the artificial intelligence. With 700-800 cards it would also be extremly large, so you would need to store some of the data in Axe to keep it smaller or in strings. Even with like 100-200 cards it would still be a big challenge. It might be best to start with a smaller project if you never coded such massive game before, but it's up to you.
Have you any programming done on it, by the way? Which percentage of completion would be the battle engine and stuff?
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ASHBAD was talking about a different post in a different thread, not that one.
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Battlefield?
An epic conflict between man and machine... or a program filled with hacked together code and ASCII graphics :P
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ooh, can't wait to judge that :D
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oh wow I didn't even think of AI..... maybe this was a bad idea :c
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Don't worry. You can always come back to a project when you have enough experience to do it successfully. It's better to find out at the beginning than halfway through when you're ready to tear your hair out.
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Don't worry. You can always come back to a project when you have enough experience to do it successfully. It's better to find out at the beginning than halfway through when you're ready to tear your hair out.
Seconded.
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thirded. I did that with my first full on ASM gmae, a platformer called soldat. I got most of the engine done when I realized it sucked and it usually didn't work right
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Ya, I agree. Though there are people like nitacku who seem quite good at constructing AI and could possibly help if ya asked.
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I could help, I love writing AI, though it won't be like you're facing Deep Blue (the computer chess player) in a chess simulator ^.^
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Another thing: There's always multiplayer, which requires no AI coding or almost none. However, linked gameplay may be harder so as first project, you may want to just make a version of the game where each player enters a password at the start of the game, then when it's a player turn, he takes the calc, enters the password, finishes his turn, then the next player does the same, and back and forth until the game ends. The passwords are to make sure the other player won't click enter when it's the other player turn and it says "Press ENTER when ready.", thus, he can't look at his deck.
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Also note that a YuGiOh AI could be made a bit easier by allowing it to cheat a bit. Since you can't see its hand, it could be allowed to find cards in its own deck to put into its hand in order to make it reasonably difficult. This is generally frowned upon but if done correctly could make for great AI :D and an AI that would be a lot easier to customize for difficulty.
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I guess it could do that, but then what if you use and ability to see the AI's hand? :(
Otherwise, if you don't use that ability at all, it works quite excellently.
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well, he wouldn't code that function in, would he? :P
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he could if he wanted to add a nice spin to the game ;)
Though, that's a lot more coding
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A big part of how difficulty increased in Yu-Gi-Oh Game Boy/Color/Advance games was allowing the AI to see your hand and face down cards and factor them into its decisions. The harder the opponent was supposed to be, the more often the game factored your hidden cards into its decisions.
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Also note that a YuGiOh AI could be made a bit easier by allowing it to cheat a bit. Since you can't see its hand, it could be allowed to find cards in its own deck to put into its hand in order to make it reasonably difficult. This is generally frowned upon but if done correctly could make for great AI :D and an AI that would be a lot easier to customize for difficulty.
Yeah Starcraft does that. In the first game, the computer knew where your base was, so he did not need to scout the map and hiding or stuff like that was hard.
One thing, though: if you ever get AI working, please do not make the game as hard as the Playstation 1 version or two of the Gameboy Advance games (one was kinda RPG-ish, where you could walk on maps and talk to NPCs, but it was not Sacred Cards). Those were so hard that they got bad reviews for the most part just because of that.
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thanks qwerty:)
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You're welcome? ???
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Any new updates, by the way, on the project or your plans?