Omnimaga

Omnimaga => Discontinued => Our Projects => XDE => Topic started by: Deep Toaster on September 21, 2010, 06:41:48 pm

Title: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 21, 2010, 06:41:48 pm
So, now that I have Axe 0.4.4, I've finally decided to make something useful in Axe: a development environment. It's probably gonna take a while, though, so don't expect a demo or anything this month. Also, I can't seem to find my link cable, which means no screenshots or anything until I get enough of it done to trouble a friend of mine to lend me his. But just as a preview, this is going to include the following when it's done (if it gets done):


So what do you guys think? Any feature requests?
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: fb39ca4 on September 21, 2010, 06:52:24 pm
How about converting text to TI-OS tokens? I prefer typing stuff out rather than getting it from the catalog or a menu.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 21, 2010, 06:56:19 pm
Yeah, that's what I meant by "LunarIDE-style command auto-completion".
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Builderboy on September 21, 2010, 07:08:12 pm
I actually prefer Tokens to typing it out O.O I can type super fast with tokens, but as soon as i need to type everything out, I would just get super slow :( Thats the single reason i really never tried any on calc editors.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 21, 2010, 07:12:52 pm
Yeah, that's why I'm also including a menu. I'm thinking F3 (F1 for File, F2 for Edit, F3 for Insert, etc.). I know that people might get disoriented since it's different from the TI-OS, but with Axe tokens being reasonably new, it might not matter.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Builderboy on September 21, 2010, 07:17:11 pm
Yeah, unfortunately with me, i know all the TiOS shortcuts, so Sub() is [Catalog] [T] [Up] [Up] and a String is [Vars] [7] [String#] and all the things like that.  Thats the way i program unfortunately, so while i think this will be very helpful and useful for many people, i just cant use it myself.  But dont let that discourage you!  I see so much promise in this program, and the Calculator really does need a better editor.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: meishe91 on September 21, 2010, 10:32:48 pm
Would making the editor an option of the user be reasonable? That way people like Builder can do it the way they like to and others can do it the other way.

Also, good luck on this. It sounds really cool :)
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: nemo on September 21, 2010, 10:33:47 pm
when you say sprite editing/inserting, would this be 2-4 level grayscale, and the hex code is just placed into your program after you finish editing it?
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 21, 2010, 10:58:33 pm
Both token and text support would be nice IMHO. I like to select tokens but other people prefer typing them like on the TI-85. As for sprite support, I wonder if it would be cool when moving the cursor over a string of hex characters that is 16 char long it would display the sprite nearby? Looks like a nice project. Good luck
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 22, 2010, 06:50:22 pm
Thanks!

Would making the editor an option of the user be reasonable? That way people like Builder can do it the way they like to and others can do it the other way.

Also, good luck on this. It sounds really cool :)

It's just a third-party editor, so basically, you write/edit a program and it saves to a plain 8XP, as if you made it in TI-OS. Basically, it's like using DreamWeaver vs. Notepad. They both work, it's just an extra editor.

I can't really make the program access the TI-OS program editor, though, if that's what you mean.

when you say sprite editing/inserting, would this be 2-4 level grayscale, and the hex code is just placed into your program after you finish editing it?


Yep, exactly :)

And I might add a 16x16 sprite editor that saves it as four separate 8x8 sprites when I have the time...

Both token and text support would be nice IMHO. I like to select tokens but other people prefer typing them like on the TI-85. As for sprite support, I wonder if it would be cool when moving the cursor over a string of hex characters that is 16 char long it would display the sprite nearby? Looks like a nice project. Good luck

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's going to have an auto-complete thing where you just type out some letters and it completes it and converts it to a token for you. There's also going to be a command list, so yeah, it's going to be like on the 85/89, where you can either type the token letters or paste it, and it gives the same result.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: meishe91 on September 22, 2010, 08:05:01 pm
Well when I meant editor I meant the token vs. typing thing. Like making that an option.

But cool. Good luck.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 22, 2010, 08:08:05 pm
Oh, yep. You can use either.

Actually, that reminds me of something: Should I tokenize the text as it's being typed, or when the program is saved, like on a TI-89? Which would be better?
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: willrandship on September 22, 2010, 08:15:49 pm
Saved. Typing would be slow, and glitchy. What if you're typing a command that has another command inside it? It would tokenize to something you don't want.

The 86 actually tokenized it when it was run, as far as I can tell. It took a while after editing to run my big stuff, so i assumed that was what it was doing :P You'd have to do it with saving, though.

I would definitely love to use this btw. I never liked having to use separate progs for spriting and such. :) Hmm, technically, couldn't you also program in BASIC/Xlib and such, too? as long as you can manually edit the header line, it should just work, right?
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: tloz128 on September 22, 2010, 10:18:25 pm
I wonder if it would be possible to create a compiled on calc language using Axe...
...and then another one in that...

But seriously, good luck with this project. It looks cool.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 22, 2010, 10:54:42 pm
Oh, yep. You can use either.

Actually, that reminds me of something: Should I tokenize the text as it's being typed, or when the program is saved, like on a TI-89? Which would be better?
Saved. On the 86 it's tokenized the first time the program is ran. It's detokenized when opened in the editor. I agree that typing would be too slow.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 23, 2010, 10:43:52 am
Quote from: willrandship
I would definitely love to use this btw. I never liked having to use separate progs for spriting and such.  Hmm, technically, couldn't you also program in BASIC/Xlib and such, too? as long as you can manually edit the header line, it should just work, right?

Thanks! About BASIC/xLIB, well, I was thinking of converting it to a BASIC editor when done, but the problem is that BASIC has a lot more tokens to keep track of than Axe, and they look different, too, so it might be hard...

Quote from: tloz128
I wonder if it would be possible to create a compiled on calc language using Axe...
...and then another one in that...

Actually, I did start on a C compiler written in Axe, then gave it up for this.

If anyone's willing to help me with that, I'd be happy to take it up again :)

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga
Saved. On the 86 it's tokenized the first time the program is ran. It's detokenized when opened in the editor. I agree that typing would be too slow.

Oh, okay, thanks. I'll just tokenize it when it's saved, I guess.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 23, 2010, 04:59:11 pm
Quote from: tloz128
I wonder if it would be possible to create a compiled on calc language using Axe...
...and then another one in that...

Actually, I did start on a C compiler written in Axe, then gave it up for this.

If anyone's willing to help me with that, I'd be happy to take it up again :)
I wonder if it would be possible to do a language in Axe, but again, I am worried it might be a bit hard to do, especially under 16 KB, plus Axe is not as optimized as ASM so the language might end up even less optimized than it.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 23, 2010, 06:37:49 pm
Yeah, but Axe supports raw hex, so that wouldn't be a problem...

Anyway, working on the keymap now. It's got a long way to go till anyone can use it...
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 23, 2010, 07:00:22 pm
Yeah true, although in that case I wonder if it wouldn't be better to write it in pure ASM if the entire interpreter/compiler is hex ASM :P
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 23, 2010, 07:06:01 pm
Well, I'm actually planning to convert some of my bigger projects from now on (when they're finished, of course) to pure ASM. It should be easier after Axe gives me the main framework of the program.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 23, 2010, 07:07:41 pm
Ah ok. Are you ditching Axe at one point or something? D:
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 23, 2010, 07:10:22 pm
No, no, Axe is still a brilliant new language that I'll be using a lot. I'm just going to convert some more memory/CPU-consuming projects to ASM after I compile them. In other words, I compile it with Axe, then go through the ASM code and optimize it if I can :P Axe'll still get credit, though.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 23, 2010, 07:12:47 pm
OOh ok I see. I guess disassemblers are pretty handy sometimes ;D (if they work properly)
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: willrandship on September 24, 2010, 05:42:45 pm
That's the nice thing about simple processors like the z80. Do you think you could dissasemble some x86 and have it turn out in any way legible? :P Even ARM would probably be pretty scrambled.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: ztrumpet on September 25, 2010, 10:17:53 am
Sounds neat.  Good luck Deep Thought. ;D
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 09, 2010, 11:58:43 pm
I'd show you guys a shot if I only find my link cable. Oh well, I'll have to do without visuals for now :D

It's going really well (especially considering the many detours I took working on my dozen or so other projects :P). Typing works very well now, including scrolling to the side (I have yet to add vertical scrolling). So far, the cursor is a 2x5 RectI( thing.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 10, 2010, 12:02:22 am
Nice :D
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 10, 2010, 12:25:21 am
Oh, and a new idea for a feature: an XDE-specific filetype (stored in an appvar) that can be converted to a normal program before compiling.

Not sure how to compress a large body of text, though. Anybody got ideas?

EDIT: Quadruple buffering ... this is getting complicated :P
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: calcdude84se on October 10, 2010, 03:30:35 pm
Quadruple buffering? How is that necessary? :P
Sounds like overkill to me...
Edit: * calcdude applies his "not meant to be offensive" marker.
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 10, 2010, 03:35:34 pm
Quadruple buffering? How is that necessary? :P
Sounds like overkill to me...
Edit: * calcdude applies his "not meant to be offensive marker."

Well, the simplest way I've found to do highlighting is to just store the highlighted blocks to the back-buffer (though it takes a lot of memory, it's a lot easier to work with). In my scrolling code, both the buffer and the back-buffer are being scrolled off into new buffers. And yeah, it kinda is overkill, but I'm not going to waste a month or so trying to compress highlight locations that can be dynamically edited :P
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: calcdude84se on October 10, 2010, 03:52:12 pm
Sounds like fun ;D
Good luck! :)
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 10, 2010, 11:11:11 pm
Wow quadruple buffering O.O

What would be the main use for this? I know in Axe double buffers is used for grayscale or for backgrounds but otherwise I am a bit confused x.x
Title: Re: XDE
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 11, 2010, 11:26:35 am
Yeah, that's what I use the two main buffers for, but because it can scroll off to the left side of the screen, I'm saving the cut-off portion in two more buffers :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 26, 2010, 07:12:15 pm
*bump*

Actually, I gave up quad buffering. I now need only two buffers. Too late, though, I already moved all the vars out of A-Z :P But the only problem with doing the scrolling the way I'm doing it now is that highlighting's gonna be a lot more complicated.

I don't have my link cable, so no screenshots, but here're some pics:

MOS screenie:
http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134528-IMG_2762[1].JPG (http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134528-IMG_2762[1%5D.JPG)

Editor (don't worry, it'll change a lot, but basically, that blank line on top is where the program name and the main menu will be):
http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134642-IMG_2763[1].JPG (http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134642-IMG_2763[1%5D.JPG)

Typing random stuff:
http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134684-IMG_2766[1].JPG (http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134684-IMG_2766[1%5D.JPG)

Scrolling:
http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134721-IMG_2768[1].JPG (http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/1288134721-IMG_2768[1%5D.JPG)

Any suggestions?

EDIT: WHOA, didn't realize the pics were so big :P Sorry.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Eeems on October 26, 2010, 07:38:32 pm
Looks pretty cool :) I also fixed your links so people can click them :)
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 26, 2010, 07:39:45 pm
Whoops, I keep forgetting about the URLs because Chrome automatically converts them for me :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Eeems on October 26, 2010, 07:43:28 pm
ah lol :P
Well it was showing up wrong so I added them in, although it took a little work with the [1] in there, bbcode didn't like it
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 26, 2010, 08:43:01 pm
ah lol :P
Well it was showing up wrong so I added them in, although it took a little work with the [1] in there, bbcode didn't like it

Hmm, removedfromgame added that in automatically. Maybe {AP} should change that?
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Eeems on October 26, 2010, 09:22:56 pm
really? it hasn't done that to me yet
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 27, 2010, 03:06:18 am
Strange this is the first time I see that happen. Maybe the IDs were duplicate or something :P

Glad you're still working on this by the way. :)
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: JustCause on November 02, 2010, 10:34:55 am
Yeah, unfortunately with me, i know all the TiOS shortcuts, so Sub() is [Catalog] [T] [Up] [Up] and a String is [Vars] [7] [String#] and all the things like that.  Thats the way i program unfortunately, so while i think this will be very helpful and useful for many people, i just cant use it myself.  But dont let that discourage you!  I see so much promise in this program, and the Calculator really does need a better editor.
Most of this also applies to me, but I think I might be able to relearn. Undoing five years of habits and all that. If it was really, really good I'd use it. *nudge*
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 03:22:22 pm
Yeah kinda same here, although I haven't coded TI-BASIC/Axe in so long that I might have lost some of those habits partially :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: squidgetx on November 02, 2010, 03:27:03 pm
[2nd][Alpha][1][Alpha][sin][MATH][^][Alpha][,][2nd][Alpha][0][/][sin][0][4][7][7][Alpha][.]
lolwut ;)
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 03:36:37 pm
[2nd][Alpha][1][Alpha][sin][MATH][^][Alpha][,][2nd][Alpha][0][/][sin][0][4][7][7][Alpha][.]
lolwut ;)
Did you do a typo or something? Because that combination appears to do nothing from the homescreen ???
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: TC01 on November 02, 2010, 03:36:54 pm
[2nd][Alpha][1][Alpha][sin][MATH][^][Alpha][,][2nd][Alpha][0][/][sin][0][4][7][7][Alpha][.]
lolwut ;)

I think you were trying to say "YEAH, ME TOO", but you have a superlative alpha between the [1] and [sin].
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 03:37:47 pm
Yeah that's what I think, because typing this key combination as he wrote it gets me stuck in the MATH menu for a while.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Raylin on November 02, 2010, 03:38:17 pm
You need lowercase enabled.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 03:40:34 pm
Oh, that might be why. Btw off-topic note, lowercase enabling/disabling/lock is weird on the TI-85 X.x
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: squidgetx on November 02, 2010, 03:46:32 pm
yeah, lowercase. It's always enabled for me due to constant running of MOS and Axe :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Binder News on November 15, 2010, 10:53:22 pm
Back on topic, why don't you ask Benjamin Moody how he made Mimas? I LOVE MIMAS!!!! (Sorry, overkill) Mimas lets you edit each line by itself, and it is surrounded by a rect. Check it out HERE (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/431/43140.html).
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on November 16, 2010, 11:12:47 am
Quote from: Binder News
Back on topic, why don't you ask Benjamin Moody how he made Mimas? I LOVE MIMAS!!!! (Sorry, overkill) Mimas lets you edit each line by itself, and it is surrounded by a rect. Check it out HERE.

Yep, I've used Mimas, and I really like the GUI. I'm thinking of taking some ideas from it (like the box around the current line).
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Munchor on November 16, 2010, 01:50:37 pm
Back on topic, why don't you ask Benjamin Moody how he made Mimas? I LOVE MIMAS!!!! (Sorry, overkill) Mimas lets you edit each line by itself, and it is surrounded by a rect. Check it out HERE (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/431/43140.html).

Hm... In the overall, what is Mimas? I have no idea lol, gotta check the thread

EDIT: Mimas is an integrated development environment for writing Z80 assembly programs on the calculator (no PC or other tools required.) It supports libraries, multi-pass assembly, separate code/data segments, a compact bytecode source format, an extensive library of built-in constants, and more. This version fixes a serious bug in the assembler (spurious "symbol-redefined" errors and occasional crashes) and some minor bugs in the conversion tools.

:oooo Nice, downloaded
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Eeems on November 16, 2010, 05:07:07 pm
Back on topic, why don't you ask Benjamin Moody how he made Mimas? I LOVE MIMAS!!!! (Sorry, overkill) Mimas lets you edit each line by itself, and it is surrounded by a rect. Check it out HERE (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/431/43140.html).

Hm... In the overall, what is Mimas? I have no idea lol, gotta check the thread

EDIT: Mimas is an integrated development environment for writing Z80 assembly programs on the calculator (no PC or other tools required.) It supports libraries, multi-pass assembly, separate code/data segments, a compact bytecode source format, an extensive library of built-in constants, and more. This version fixes a serious bug in the assembler (spurious "symbol-redefined" errors and occasional crashes) and some minor bugs in the conversion tools.

:oooo Nice, downloaded
please stay on topic
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on November 16, 2010, 07:48:19 pm
UPDATE:

Finally managed to get a demo of this thing off my calc (thanks to qazwsx988 for uploading). Here (http://ourl.ca/7937/142341) it is!

It shouldn't contain any bugs that would crash your calc, but DO NOT GO DOWN BEYOND THE SCREEN LIMIT VERTICALLY. I haven't added vertical scrolling yet, and TI's Text( routines corrupt data if they get cut off by the bottom of the screen. Horizontal scrolling works fine, though, except for an annoying glitch where the line turns blank in certain conditions :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 17, 2010, 03:27:05 am
Nice, and I assume qazwsx988 is your friend, right?

I'll try it when I get some time. What does it add in this version?
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on December 12, 2010, 12:11:58 am
Nice, and I assume qazwsx988 is your friend, right?

I'll try it when I get some time. What does it add in this version?

Not much, it's just a demo of how editing will work. But it's really old too (I've since deleted and restarted the project from scratch, and I'm way past where the demo shows :D).
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 13, 2010, 12:39:48 am
Ah I see. Are you planning to post some images of what you have so far?
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on December 13, 2010, 03:56:37 pm
Yeah, I'll do that later. The new version allows typing tokens with multiple chars (like pressing SIN gives you sin( instantly). Which also means I'm pretty close to adding copy/pasting :D
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 14, 2010, 02:37:31 am
Oh this is cool. I myself am used to inserting tokens so this will speed me up while coding if I use this.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: ZippyDee on March 26, 2011, 08:43:03 am
This sounds like it'll be phenomenal once it's done...and it'll probably be pretty bad ass even before it's done! I can't wait! :D
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Munchor on March 26, 2011, 08:58:58 am
This sounds like it'll be phenomenal once it's done...and it'll probably be pretty bad ass even before it's done! I can't wait! :D

Yes it will, phenomenal.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: ZippyDee on March 26, 2011, 09:00:55 am
I don't think I'd even know where to start for something like this. I'd probably butcher it within the first 100 lines of code because of my lack of organization :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on March 26, 2011, 01:45:26 pm
I don't think I'd even know where to start for something like this. I'd probably butcher it within the first 100 lines of code because of my lack of organization :P

You have not seen my code :P

But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on what you want ;D), this is on hold until I get a demo of Contra out.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: BlakPilar on September 22, 2011, 03:30:33 pm
Is this still being worked on? Sorry, didn't see the last bit of the post above me <_<
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on September 25, 2011, 12:25:16 am
Theoretically this is still active, but I've really got a lot of things to do.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Binder News on September 25, 2011, 01:33:47 am
You could release the source and let others help.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Roboman on January 23, 2013, 02:43:54 pm
You are making an axe IDE... in axe...
AXECEPTION
great work! ;D
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Nick on January 23, 2013, 02:50:37 pm
You are making an axe IDE... in axe...
AXECEPTION
great work! ;D
I don't really know if this project is still alive, hence the last post date :)
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: epic7 on January 25, 2013, 09:32:53 pm
You know, I've actually been working on this halfheartedly for a few days. So if no one is working on it, I may very well pick it back up soon.

Maybe alive
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Sorunome on January 25, 2013, 09:41:22 pm
Hopefully. It would be too awesome. I would so use it. Don't even question me.
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Deep Toaster on February 10, 2013, 10:35:57 pm
I guess this will be my next project revival then, if people want to see this running :)
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Sorunome on February 10, 2013, 10:52:50 pm
I want to see this running, so please make it live!
It wants to have a beating heart :P
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: Ft.lou on June 30, 2013, 02:11:23 am
Nice! Look forward that!
Title: Re: XDE: The Axe Development Environment
Post by: TheCoder1998 on January 02, 2014, 07:57:11 am
is this project still worked on?
(sorry for necroposting again)