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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: Eeems on May 28, 2020, 11:08:38 am

Title: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: Eeems on May 28, 2020, 11:08:38 am
As seen over on Cemetech (https://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16652), TI has removed native code support from the CE line of calculators. This means that programs written in assembler, or compiled with languages like C will no longer work on the latest OS. If you want to continue using natively compiled programs, you will want to avoid updating for the time being. We will continue to post major updates and information as this evolves.

What is your opinion on this change by TI?
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: Jonson26 on May 29, 2020, 06:21:13 am
In my opinion, that's really sad, because it kind of nullifies the effort so many people have put into making all those cool programs for the CE range. For example, a project like TI-BOY CE will now be much less useful.
Apparently they want to replace ASM with python (potential vurnerability?), which unfortunately isn't a viable replacement for ASM, because it's an interpreted language.  :(
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: Eeems on May 29, 2020, 02:58:48 pm
In my opinion, that's really sad, because it kind of nullifies the effort so many people have put into making all those cool programs for the CE range. For example, a project like TI-BOY CE will now be much less useful.
Apparently they want to replace ASM with python (potential vurnerability?), which unfortunately isn't a viable replacement for ASM, because it's an interpreted language.  :(
As much as I'm excited for native support of python on a calculator, I'd much rather still have the option to compile anything to native code for the performance boost.
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 29, 2020, 06:25:32 pm
From what I could understand, a TI-83 Premium CE python program cannot be larger than 17.7 KB of executable code and there are a few commands that are proprietary rather than actual python. Speed is also a problem. Here is a video of the same program running on different calculator models:




Don't expect a CE python port of Reuben Quest anytime soon.
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: Eeems on May 30, 2020, 06:49:39 pm
From what I could understand, a TI-83 Premium CE python program cannot be larger than 17.7 KB of executable code and there are a few commands that are proprietary rather than actual python. Speed is also a problem. Here is a video of the same program running on different calculator models:

Don't expect a CE python port of Reuben Quest anytime soon.
That's really disappointing to hear :( My understanding was that it supports python through a separate arm chip. I would say I'm surprised at how bad the performance is, but this is TI we are talking about :/
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: Jean-Baptiste Boric on May 31, 2020, 10:27:34 am
What is your opinion on this change by TI?

We haven't seen them doing something that stupid since the TI signing key legal mess a decade ago. They've truly outdone themselves this time. Throwing their community off a cliff without a warning by removing an advertised feature and deciding that the squeaky toy that is their Python port shall be a replacement of ASM/C, no take-backs.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy TI. They do not care about anything but money.

From what I could understand, a TI-83 Premium CE python program cannot be larger than 17.7 KB of executable code and there are a few commands that are proprietary rather than actual python.

You'd be lucky to get a Python script bigger than ~5 KiB running. MicroPython scripts on calculators tend to require 2 to 4 times their size in heap in order not to run out of memory.
Title: Open letter to TI
Post by: ACagliano on June 09, 2020, 01:50:20 pm
I posted this to Cemetech and now am here and will also on Codewalrus.

Quote
I would even propose calling TI's bluff on something. Write TI a letter, signed by a EVERY major calc development community - Cemetech, Omnimaga, Codewalrus (unity is important on this), informing them that if they do not revise their decision on C/asm, and implement exam security in a way that is conducive to teaching, learning, and doing programming, we the community will be designing, releasing and marketing our own calculator to compete with them. And if they do not walk it back.. actually follow through.

There is no action legally they could take to prevent this: it would be our own hardware and programming, no copying of names, symbols, anything. Free market, people can compete with whoever they want.
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: Eeems on June 09, 2020, 02:17:39 pm
I posted this to Cemetech and now am here and will also on Codewalrus.

Quote
I would even propose calling TI's bluff on something. Write TI a letter, signed by a EVERY major calc development community - Cemetech, Omnimaga, Codewalrus (unity is important on this), informing them that if they do not revise their decision on C/asm, and implement exam security in a way that is conducive to teaching, learning, and doing programming, we the community will be designing, releasing and marketing our own calculator to compete with them. And if they do not walk it back.. actually follow through.

There is no action legally they could take to prevent this: it would be our own hardware and programming, no copying of names, symbols, anything. Free market, people can compete with whoever they want.
What bluff? We don't make up enough of their customer base for them to care. Not to mention, we'd need to be competing with them in a space that they already have competition in (HP & Casio). We would need to get the calculator we create to be approved for use on standardized tests, which is not easy, or cheap.
Title: Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
Post by: E37 on June 09, 2020, 09:20:00 pm
I posted this to Cemetech and now am here and will also on Codewalrus.

Quote
I would even propose calling TI's bluff on something. Write TI a letter, signed by a EVERY major calc development community - Cemetech, Omnimaga, Codewalrus (unity is important on this), informing them that if they do not revise their decision on C/asm, and implement exam security in a way that is conducive to teaching, learning, and doing programming, we the community will be designing, releasing and marketing our own calculator to compete with them. And if they do not walk it back.. actually follow through.

There is no action legally they could take to prevent this: it would be our own hardware and programming, no copying of names, symbols, anything. Free market, people can compete with whoever they want.
What bluff? We don't make up enough of their customer base for them to care. Not to mention, we'd need to be competing with them in a space that they already have competition in (HP & Casio). We would need to get the calculator we create to be approved for use on standardized tests, which is not easy, or cheap.
If we would be able to make any threats it would be that we would circumvent test security. But since that is (likely) more possible with assembly and basic I don't see that we would have any leverage. Wouldn't our best option to be to hope for an exploit to make custom cracked OSes that allow assembly?