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Author Topic: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!  (Read 84783 times)

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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #105 on: July 17, 2010, 03:04:21 pm »
If the Nspire equivalent of FreeFlash was made, it _might_ not even be enough, due to the chain of validation (boot2 validated by boot1, OS validated by boot2): if the validation of a forcefully installed OS ever gets triggered for some reason, we lose.
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Offline jnesselr

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #106 on: July 17, 2010, 04:06:25 pm »
In other words, we can only "win" if we factor the keys, something of which has never been done before.  So basically, we need at least 1e6 computers, or to find another algorithm...  Hmm... I am trying to figure out which is more likely....
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Offline critor

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #107 on: July 17, 2010, 04:08:31 pm »
So Lionel, you're meaning we can't use OS 2.1 at all without installing the protection?
Then, the next OS release in march with some major new features is going to be a big problem for us...

If I unterstand well, the only way that could remove the protection permanently from my calculators would be:
1) use Ndless2 on OS 1.7/2.0 to remove the protection from the NAND chip
2) immediately install OS 2.0 or older
?


The other way would we to start factoring the keys... and to be very very lucky... :(
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:10:41 pm by critor »
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Offline qazz42

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #108 on: July 17, 2010, 08:46:57 pm »
Well, I think factoring the keys will be too difficult with current computers, the ndless2 idea looks nice though ( but we dont know if that owuld work)


I would like to see what happens when you put 2.1 on the nspire emu, oerhaps I can figure something ut
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Offline apcalc

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #109 on: July 17, 2010, 08:58:08 pm »
qazz42, Goplat released a new version of the nspire emulator today on unitedti that supports the new OS
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #110 on: July 17, 2010, 09:17:22 pm »
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Offline apcalc

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #111 on: July 17, 2010, 09:42:11 pm »
Great job Deep Thought! :D

Hopefully this will be noticed by someone!
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #112 on: July 17, 2010, 11:17:49 pm »
Btw, people, I think Slashdot works a bit like Digg but I'm not too sure. You may want to click the + icon at http://slashdot.org/submission/1285326/TI-Against-Calculator-Hobbyists--Again (there should be a + - besides the title). Also one concern I have about Ndless 2 is that even if it got released for OS 1.7 and 2.0, what if all new Nspire calcs come pre-loaded with 2.1? A new Ndless would have to be done, then, unless the new OS can support the current Ndless 2. Then we're in for another several months of wait, like we are with Ndless 2, and by the time 3 is out, a new OS will have come out, forcing the dev to create Ndless 4... It will be an endless battle like with the Iphone, where the community will have to make sure that a team of developper remains around to constantly jailbreak every new hardware/OS for the next year to come, which can be hard considering normally the average calc user retires from the community after college.

Another thing I hope is that Ndless will not eventually go the way PSP 2000 hacking did: requiring the user to modify their PSP hardware (requiring good hands with electronics and the tools to do it) to run 3rd party stuff on it. It would reduce Ndless audience drastically, since not everyone is willing to do electronic stuff.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 11:23:26 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2010, 11:36:25 pm »
It's an Ndless cycle :(

Unless, of course, we somehow convince TI that Ndless isn't evil.

EDIT: Doesn't OS 2.1 allow downgrading to 1.7, though? So Ndless 2 could still work with just a downgrade, just like the original.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 11:38:13 pm by Deep Thought »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #114 on: July 17, 2010, 11:54:36 pm »
It does, on the clickpad Nspires. On the touchpad ones, I think the lowest is 2.0, though (unless 2.1 actually activate an even worse protection on the touchpad models). Plus, we never know if 2.2 or 3.0 or 2.1.1 will block every possible downgrades anyway, when/if they arrive.
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Offline qazz42

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #115 on: July 18, 2010, 09:38:57 am »
No.. no.. I think Ti isnt that retarded as to block EVERY downgrade, just the ones they think are dangerous
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Offline apcalc

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2010, 09:46:23 am »
Quote from: Deep Thought on July 17, 2010, 11:36:25 pm
Unless, of course, we somehow convince TI that Ndless isn't evil.

I think that will take an Ndless amount of time. :(
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Offline jnesselr

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2010, 11:50:34 am »
At least the article is on the main slashdot.org page.  However a lot of he comments are saying don't allow a calculator at all.  I didn't read a single comment (Granted, I didn't read them all) that brought up the point that just because you have a calculator doesn't mean that it just gives you the answers.

Anyway, at least this way, there will be a little more publicity for the article.  Now we just need to factor the keys.
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Offline ACagliano

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2010, 12:10:05 pm »
We should boycott the NSpires. TI-84+ rocks.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Nspire 2.1 out, don't install it!
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2010, 12:43:32 pm »
For some reasons, I wish what ACagliano said would happen. However, I doubt that would really happen, because it would be hard to reach the entire planet with that news, especially people who don't go online often. If their Nspire sales dropped a lot and their 84+ sales continued increasing or remained the same, maybe they would try attracting customers with something more interesting for the Nspire. My fear, though, is a paid SDK.

I'm glad the article made it to Slashdot at least. Altough people there are generally not calculator fans, there are quite a bunch of pro-open-source people there who are against stuff like what TI and Apple do.

I hope there will be a way to factor the keys x.x (or an alternative)
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