Author Topic: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!  (Read 21892 times)

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Offline Hayleia

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2013, 09:33:39 am »
Yeah, true, sadly.

I got another idea. Couldn't they "save the state" of the calc (not everything of course, but things like "PTT activated" or "CAS activated") before a native program is run, then restore it when the program exits if it was changed. This way, native programs are completely harmless for their interest.
I own: 83+ ; 84+SE ; 76.fr ; CX CAS ; Prizm ; 84+CSE
Sorry if I answer with something that seems unrelated, English is not my primary language and I might not have understood well. Sorry if I make English mistakes too.

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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2013, 02:33:03 pm »
The issue with a proprietary SDK is that knowing TI, it would probably suck and/or cost money.

When they do something for developers it's usually not so reliable (see how slow Lua is compared to ASM/C. If TI really cared about us, Lua would at least be proportional to Grammer speed compared to 84+ ASM.

Offline Levak

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 04:38:52 pm »
When they do something for developers it's usually not see how slow Lua is compared to ASM/C. If TI really cared about us, Lua would at least be proportional to Grammer speed compared to 84+ ASM.
You are comparing a scripting langage with a compiled one.
You are also comparing an interpreted (tokens) langage with a scripted one.
A scripted langage has to parse caracters, not tokens, its obviously slower !


The point you may be able to discuss, on the other hand, is the GUI API of the TI-Nspire Lua API.
There is a big mistake (but not so much possibilities) that the screen is prebuffered and disallows direct modifications. But, there are also plenty of functionnalities (like stroke width) that slow down a normal "stroke" to be drawn.
Another mistake are TI-Images, but we all know that. The fact is, that format is close to the one used by resources (like icons).
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 04:40:53 pm by Levak »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 05:21:15 pm »
In case you didn't know, Grammer is not a compiled language, unlike Axe and C (hence why I didn't use Axe Parser as an example). Granted, Grammer uses tokens rather than individual characters for its commands, but still, there's no reason why Lua should be as slow as it is right now, other than being poorly implemented. My point is that I bet that if someone was as good at Nspire C or ASM as Xeda is with Z80 ASM, the programmer could write a scripted Grammer port or even a 3rd-party Lua port that runs *much* faster than Texas Instruments' implementation.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:23:33 pm by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline Levak

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 05:44:21 pm »
In case you didn't know, Grammer is not a compiled language
Where have I said that ?
Quote
Granted, Grammer uses tokens rather than individual characters for its commands
It's exactly what I said.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:44:44 pm by Levak »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 05:49:57 pm »
You said that I was comparing a scripted language with a compiled one, so since I was only talking about Lua and Grammer, it seemed to me that you thought that Grammer is compiled.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:52:10 pm by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline Levak

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2013, 06:18:32 pm »
You said that I was comparing a scripted language with a compiled one, so since I was only talking about Lua and Grammer, it seemed to me that you thought that Grammer is compiled.
I took your sentence in the way you said it : "Lua" then "C" then "Grammer" then "Lua"
Now, let's paste my answer : "scripted" with a "compiled" then "interpreted" with a "scripted" one.
Comparing Lua to C is not the same as comparing Grammer to ASM. That was my POV.
But of course, the TI-Nspire Lua API can be optimized, I was just worried you were complaining about Lua using a false comparaison.
I do not get mad at people, I just want them to learn the way I learnt.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2013, 06:21:42 pm »
Ah ok I see. But yeah to be honest I just couldn't see any justification to Lua's brutal slow speed. Of course I can understand why Lua would be slower than a tokenized language, but not this much slower.

Offline Jim Bauwens

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2013, 03:44:21 am »
Actually, Lua is an interpreted language. If the script isn't already bytecode, it will 'compile' it to Lua bytecode, to then be interpreted by the Lua VM. On the Nspire you can't have scripts that are already bytecode so the conversion happens at launch. That means launch time might slow down, but for the rest of the run time it will be running Lua bytecode (unless you use loadstring).

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI-Nspire OS 3.6 1st official capture: let's fight cheaters!
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2013, 12:25:28 pm »
Do you mean it's kinda tokenizing the program on launch like on the TI-85, 86, 89, 92, 92+ and v200? I noticed that when launching a 86 program for the first time, it takes a long while, then the program shrinks down in size. Editing it detokenizes it I think.