Author Topic: OmniRPG - Sprites  (Read 39780 times)

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Offline Ranman

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2012, 10:51:14 pm »
Any votes for 11x11 sprites? That's what I used for Ultima V. 11x11 gave me the ability to have a full 9x9 grid of tiles on the screen.

I would like to see 12x12 over 16x16 or 8x8.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 10:55:28 pm by Ranman »
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Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2012, 12:25:07 am »
It is true that you had an 9x9 grid to play around on, but your project was on the 68k sereies. You had a larger screen to play with. We would need to do 8x8 to accomplish similar here (a 12x8 or 8x8 grid with a hud).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 02:39:16 am by Art_of_camelot »

Offline Ranman

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2012, 12:26:44 am »
It is true that you had an 11x11 grid to play around on, but your project was on the 68k sereies. You had a larger screen to play with. We would need to do 8x8 to aaccomplish similar here (a 12x8 or 8x8 grid with a hud).

9x9 grid of 11x11 sprites.

12x12 makes better sense on the TI-83/84 calcs.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 12:28:02 am by Ranman »
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Offline Sorunome

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2012, 12:27:56 am »
but the 84 screen is only 96 pixels across and 64 pixels high

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Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2012, 02:35:49 am »
@homer:I agree. Its much easier to map the entire world out on a pc so you can see the whole world at once.
@bluebear:12x12 isnt much different from 16x16 programming wise really.
@Ranman:A 9x9grid of 11x11 sprites is what i meant (in regards to ultima, ill edit my slip up.
@sorunome:yea, we know.

Offline Xeda112358

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2012, 08:40:37 am »
If we have over 256 sprites, we can always have sprite pallets for different areas.
Yes, that will definitely work. At 16x16 (or even 8x8) there won't even be >100 sprites on the screen st any given point.
I might have to pull back from this project a bit, life and A:P are keeping me quite busy as it is :(. I'll still be happy to act as a consultant, hehe, chipping in here and there though.

Anyway what I have to say here is that if you guys are going to go grayscale ARPG, you're going to have to sacrifice the 6mhz audience. Redrawing the screen isn't going to be an option, as that takes over 400,000 cycles by itself if you're drawing 2 layers for gray. So the screen is going to be needed to be backed up every frame to draw the enemies and whatnot; simply backing up 1,536 bytes of buffer, drawing the screen (3lvl gray) and restoring those 1,536 bytes is going to take over 123,512 cycles. In 6mhz, that's 48fps. Once you add in scrolling, enemies, and whatnot, the framerate isn't going to be anywhere close to the 45-60fps needed for decent grayscale. (Reference numbers: Horizontal/Vertical commands take about 20k cycles, drwaing an 8x8 sprite takes 2100 cycles. So scrolling with 2 16x16 grayscale sprites onscreen? Add 4*2*2*2100+2*20,000 = ~another 50,000 cycles, dropping the 6mhz framerate down to 30fps). 15mhz is going to be just about right to get you by.
I already have a much more efficient algorithm planned for scrolling a 3-level gray tilemap that should take around 50000 cycles. I posted my idea in the coding section and I have PMed chickendude for his knowledge on the subject.

Also, I have my own grayscale routine (probably not nearly as optimised as the one in Axe) that is still as fast as a regular screen update.

EDIT: Here are some sprites I found on my computer that y'all are free to use. The mini ones are the same sprites that I have been using for my other RPG series, the bigger ones were what I was designing a long time ago for an RPG featuring scrolling tilemaps with 16x16 gray tiles :P I will have to see if I have code for that, now XD

Offline Spenceboy98

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2012, 10:34:09 pm »
I think that we should have a poll or something for the size and/or graylevels. Some people may want to get started on making them. :P
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Offline Sorunome

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2012, 11:23:46 pm »
good idea, poll options then 8x8, 12x12 and 16x16?
And greyscale none, 3 or 4?
* Sorunome pokes yeongJIN_COOL to add a poll

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Offline blue_bear_94

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2012, 11:26:15 pm »
Res: 8x8
Grayscale: none (1/2 as much sprite data)
Due to dissatisfaction, I will be inactive on Omnimaga until further notice. (?? THP hasn't been much success and there's also the CE. I might possibly be here for a while.)
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Offline Sorunome

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2012, 11:26:56 pm »
we need a poll for that as many people have different opinions :P

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Offline Xeda112358

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2012, 07:45:50 am »
Well, I've changed my mind after talking to chickendude and seeing some screenies from zer project. I'm definitely for monochrome 16x16, but the sprites are going to be rather large and the tilemaps. Why?

This means that sprites will need two layers for masking, and with how I am thinking of collision detection, another layer will probably be needed, meaning each tile will be 96 bytes 0.0

If we can figure out how to keep it in archive, though, that won't be a problem at all.

Offline stevon8ter

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2012, 07:49:08 am »
Wow that looks cool :o yeah i hope we can keep it in archive (run with shell?) cause that really looks cool
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Offline Xeda112358

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2012, 07:49:43 am »
No, we can make code to read the sprites from archive :D

Offline Darl181

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2012, 08:05:19 am »
I'm not really sure on what sprite size I'd go for, tho I'm leaning towards 8*8 for memory and simplicity.
12*12 would be great if it can be made to work optimally both space-wise and speed-wise tho. Maybe the extra 4px on the bottom sould be used for a hud or something. (softkeys?)

As for the grayscale, a random thought that came to mind was maybe it have monochrome primarily, and have an option to make it 3-lvl gray for shininess if the player wants it? If they don't want it they could just not send an appvar or whatever with the masking sprites.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 08:19:41 am by Darl181 »
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Offline Xeda112358

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Re: OmniRPG - Sprites
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2012, 08:10:08 am »
That would be good. Maybe some auto detection to see if it is an 83+ and automatically set to monochrome, else draw using grayscale if it is 15MHz capable. (And still have a grayscale option)