Author Topic: Religion Discussion  (Read 56775 times)

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Offline ElementCoder

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #165 on: October 02, 2013, 12:27:53 am »
Looked like a terrorist? I live pretty much next to an islamitic (cultural) gathering center and never has it caused any trouble nor blew up. Every day some walk by and I speak with them sometimes. They're friendly people and even though there are quite some when they've all gathered, nothing has ever gone wrong.

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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #166 on: October 02, 2013, 12:39:46 am »
Besides, there are terrorists that looked like catholic citizens anyway, except maybe the darker skin color (but even then they could have been mistaken as Mexicans).


There are muslims who leave their respective countries because of war or lack of freedom. That said, it's not like North American countries are are good example of free country, but at least you won't get arrested if you forget to wear your burka or are caught doing Christian or non-heterosexual actions or defending these groups of people.

Offline SpiroH

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #167 on: October 02, 2013, 05:04:25 am »
Yeah, this 'Looking like a terrorist' idea is a very dangerous concept, indeed. Do you still remember the young brasilian electrician ('Jean Charles de Menezes') who was shot dead in London, not a long time ago (22July2005)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes .

Offline utz

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #168 on: October 02, 2013, 05:31:23 am »
That said, in the Koran, it DOES endorse a holy war, or Jihad, but this has already happened, as in the Crusades.

I'm not going to get into this discussion, just a quick remark about the statement above: "Jihad" does not mean "holy war", even if that's what most western mainstream media as well as some deranged clerics from the Muslim world want you to believe. The word actually translates as "effort". In Qur'an it refers to the fact that Muslims should work hard to make a better person out of themselves.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 05:32:07 am by utz »

Offline Jim Bauwens

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #169 on: October 02, 2013, 05:57:56 am »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself. BTW if you look at terrorists then most of them are Islam fanatics.
Another thing is how they treat women. They consider that women are inferior to men and are here only for sex, reproduction and home tasks. While I don't consider women nor anybody else equal to me (we are all different and one of a kind), I believe that no hierarchy exists between human beings.
Another thing : the Hamas's slogan (one of many pro islamisation groups) is "We love death more than you love life". I think this is pretty much self explanatory.
One last thing : there are only a couple Nobel prices won by muslims. So the proportion of intelligent people adept of this religion is ridiculously low.

Now I hope that these arguments make you reconsider your opinion a bit and realize that Islam is not only good. There are good muslims but not all of them are and the Coran has two halves : the beginning of Mohammed's life which was good and the second part which was only war and blood.

I know others have already replied to your post, but I still would like to add some stuff. In your post you are generalizing many things and generalisation to me ruins good discussion. It doesn't mean when one certain group (mis) interpretes something in the Bible/Koran that the entire group following those books do so. You always have extremists, in any religion (and I count atheism to that group too).

Beside that, I find your point on intelligence of muslims utterly ridiculous. Again, you're generalizing and even on a ridiculous point. The nobel prize is something that has been extremely western for a long period of time, there was little interaction with the many asian countries until recently. And if you look in the history books, you can see those countries contributed very much to science.

There is a muslim girl that I  know and am very befriended with. She is also one of the only girls I know that is studying computer science. Very bright and intelligent, more so than many other students. Although I don't agree with some of her religious viewpoints (I'm Christian) I certainly do respect them. She to me is a great proof of how muslims can be (and are) just normal people. It is the propaganda of western governments that tries to change this view, to make them all terrorists. (well, some governments more than others)

As a final note, every group that has power will take advantage of it. Be it a government, the Catholic church or certain muslim leaders. But they don't define all the people that are part of (or affected by) the group.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:02:07 am by Jim Bauwens »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #170 on: October 02, 2013, 09:18:53 am »
I think that Streetwalker probably should have said something along the line that in muslim countries, the politics and mentalities tend to be barbaric (as in blowing each others out or the extreme restrictions on women rights), but it doesn't mean that muslims have inferior intelligence. Also, is it true that years ago in some of those countries, there were no such restriction as forcing women to cover their face and that this was later instated by radical islamist groups?

Offline Stefan Bauwens

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #171 on: October 02, 2013, 11:25:54 am »
Just to reply in general to some earlier posts I've read:
I am a Christian, and have a extremely strong basis for this. I also do not believe in evolution, and that's because I've done a ton of study on it. ;)

Why would a God let us die? Well, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the earth is not the most nice place to live in. To be stuck here forever would be a mild form of Hell for me, if I think about it like that.
If you believe in Heaven and Hell, death makes a lot of sense.

As much as people will deny it, evolution is basically a religion on it's own, with all the poor evidence it has.
To me, the world in the light of Christianity makes very much sense, and hardly does in the light of evolution and no God.

:)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 11:27:12 am by Stefan Bauwens »


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Offline AngelFish

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #172 on: October 02, 2013, 12:47:59 pm »
Also, is it true that years ago in some of those countries, there were no such restriction as forcing women to cover their face and that this was later instated by radical islamist groups?

Depends on precisely when and where you're talking about. In *many* traditional sects, women are not required to cover their faces or hands, merely the rest of their body. However, some interpretations of the hadith and the Qu'ran have decided that it is virtuous for women to wear full body veils. A few even take it farther and mandate that women cover their faces at all times [except for those where it is explicitly banned by the Qu'ran], such as the stance taken by the Taliban during their rule in Afghanistan.
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Offline willrandship

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #173 on: October 02, 2013, 12:49:55 pm »
I believe in evolution, and am christian. There is quite a bit of evidence for it, and no evidence for a literally instantaneous creation.

I also believe that God is our father, and we all have the potential to become gods.

Can anyone guess what religion I am?

Offline XiiDraco

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #174 on: October 02, 2013, 12:53:28 pm »
I believe in evolution, and am christian. There is quite a bit of evidence for it, and no evidence for a literally instantaneous creation.

I also believe that God is our father, and we all have the potential to become gods.

Can anyone guess what religion I am?

Is the answer, Latter-day Saints or however you say that...?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 12:54:21 pm by XiiR3CR34T10N »

Offline willrandship

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #175 on: October 02, 2013, 12:54:22 pm »
100% correct, although I don't mind if you use the term mormon if you prefer, or LDS.

Offline XiiDraco

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #176 on: October 02, 2013, 12:56:12 pm »
Yeah just now figured that out.

Offline Scipi

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #177 on: October 02, 2013, 01:11:45 pm »
As much as people will deny it, evolution is basically a religion on it's own, with all the poor evidence it has.

I would ask how this is that Evolution has such poor evidence? I can think of several very good examples within relatively recent timeframes.

The most popular example is Human breeding of dogs from wolves. However, Humans have also done the same with Horses. Horses as recent as the Roman eras were little more than ponies barely suitable for riding. That's why in early Bronze Age history, horses were used for chariots, they couldn't support the weight of Humans. True war horses weren't available until around the 18th century, iirc.

The there's the conceptual side of things. DNA is like source code. We know DNA mutates (at it's core, it's point mutations that drive all of evolution). The only thing that separates life forms from one another is DNA. Since we know DNA defines the organism, and that changes in DNA can be passed down, as you change the DNA, you change the organism. Eventually you get to a point a group with such different DNA that it cannot reproduce with others of the same species, and thus it becomes their own species. Where's the hole in that?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 01:12:14 pm by Scipi »

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Offline shmibs

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #178 on: October 02, 2013, 04:48:08 pm »
I also do not believe in evolution, and that's because I've done a ton of study on it. ;)

[...]

As much as people will deny it, evolution is basically a religion on it's own, with all the poor evidence it has.

do you ever get sick?  if so, you are experiencing first-hand the effects of evolution. over the years, you and your ancestors have built up immunities against germs and viruses. because you are (relatively) long-lived, quite a bit of this adaptation can happen dynamically (though mutations have also played a very large part in the development of the human immune system). bacteria and viruses cannot adapt "on the fly" like this, however, and thus have to rely solely on these mutations to continue getting around your immune system and successfully infecting you. the fact that you continue to get sick, despite having already encountered and defeated the parents/grandparents/great grandparents and so on of these diseases is proof that they are continuously evolving.

Offline AssemblyBandit

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #179 on: October 02, 2013, 04:53:43 pm »
Scipi, schmibs, I like both examples!

@ElementCoder, DJ, SprioH: Here is what my muslim post was loosely based on: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/23/justice/new-york-sikh-possible-hate-crime/index.html  but while looking for it, I found this: http://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-ordered-sikh-remove-rag-head-aclu/story?id=20400720  I hope that judge gets a beating!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 04:59:37 pm by AssemblyBandit »