Author Topic: Wanting to get a desktop  (Read 16503 times)

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Offline willrandship

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2013, 07:06:13 am »
People always say you can't get high-res consoles because of the lack of KMS, but in my case at least, the default resolution is native. I think nvidia provided its own method for text-mode resizing, since AFAIK the KMS issue has not yet been addressed.

Offline Vogtinator

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2013, 08:52:40 am »
With the newer 3.12 kernel the open source radeon driver is almost (90%) as fast as the proprietrary fglrx.
With fglrx the console is at the native resolution sometimes, sometimes it isn't. But with the open source driver you won't get annoying flickering if you switch the tty.

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2013, 09:17:09 am »
Isn't SSD lifetime reduced only during defragmenting anyway? For TI calculators, the Flash chip was apparently weared out only by garbage collecting and defragmenting, not by archiving/unarchiving/flash unlock, from what I remember.
SSD lifetime is reduced when you delete something from it. On TI calculators, deletion only happens when you defrag/GC (since variables only are marked as deleted otherwise). On PCs, things are a bit different. Instead of copying everything, deleting the original and then writing everything back, PCs can delete individual files pretty much whenever. This is much more efficient since you're just erasing a small part of flash. Also, since PC file systems are more advanced than VAT, files can be split up into multiple segments and still work just fine (though this is pretty slow on regular hard drives because of seek times, and that's why those need defragging).
I hope it'll be able to run Wabbitemu D:
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 09:18:15 am by JosJuice »

Offline shmibs

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2013, 10:53:19 am »
That's the problem though. ATIs performance last I checked was horrible. And since AMD opened up their GPU documentation their non-free driver got to the point were it's not worth trying.

ATI/AMD performance compared to intel graphics better than to nvidia graphics.

I'm a Linux user since more than 15 years and have been using nvidia most of the time but went through matrox, s3, intel, via, and ati, too. I really wanted to switch to a more free option several times and I did try. It just was never worth the performance loss.

So what from a user perspective are the problems with nvidia graphics day to day? Of course the drivers are non-free, unless you use nouveau but then you are better off with AMD. So let's say you are fine with running nvidias non-free drivers - what problems will arise?

There is no kms and it doesn't work to use framebuffer drivers together with the nvidia driver. So no high resolution text mode.
Switching between X and Text virtual consoles is flakey. Sometimes you loose text virtual console visibility. On a Desktop however 99.9% of the time you stay in X. On very rare occasions This switching left me with no graphics whatsoever and only a reboot helped.
RANDR support is there. Since this happened multi-monitor support is decent using the distributions own configuration tools. no need to change your Xorg.conf file.

Sometimes after a kernel update or a graphics driver update there is a mismatch of driver versions and X won't start. DKMS and other infrastructure by the distributions mostly takes care of that.

On the other hand when it works, and it usually does, the experience is unmatched. You get reliable and fast graphics with opengl just working. There are apis and api support for video playback acceleration and cuda. And there is infrastructure to actually use it.

In my opinion not using nvidia graphics for a Linux desktop is a very bad idea. Unless you value the freedom of your systems software over it working.

Edit: I did some more reading about the non-free amd/ati drivers. Apparantly the situation improved a lot. So non-free AMD/ATI can now actually be compared to non-free NVIDIA. That being said I'd have to try myself to actually see wether installing the ATI drivers has become something that can be done without hours of cursing nowadays. The ratio of nvidia/fglrx problems I've seen strongly suggests prefering nvidia.

i have a modern nvidia card and nouveau handles my set up just fine doing the sorts of things sorunome said he'd be doing. i'd much rather have an ATI card, though, because of the better performance and less ambiguity about the future. what things are you doing that *require* the proprietary drivers' speed?

Offline ruler501

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2013, 11:25:04 am »
I use the AMD(not sure if free or not) drivers on my install and they work just fine(triple monitor with xrandr). I haven't done much with testing performance comparison versus windows, but it seems to work well.
I currently don't do much, but I am a developer for a game you should totally try out called AssaultCube Reloaded download here https://assaultcuber.codeplex.com/
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Offline willrandship

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2013, 04:22:56 pm »
Shmibs, do you do any gaming? Nouveau's 3D support was still crap last time I checked.

Also, the benchmarks don't lie: Nouveau is crap compared to the native driver.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_nvidia_win81&num=2

Offline XiiDraco

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2013, 06:30:36 pm »
[...]
if you have a heavy wallet then go for a mac
it is similar in context with linux---------------> both are based on unix
multi display and everything is there
except for dvd drive you have a separate one for that
ew, you'd have to brainwash me for me even thinking about that, sorry :P


Anyways, out of your posts it seems as if AMD is not that good at all.....(lol, i have an AMD cpu in my lappy)

Also, graphic card, yeah, i heard about nvidia and linux......so i guess no GeForce card. Any suggestions? (other than saying, hm, decent because i don't know what the hay to pay attention for to get 'decent' GPUs)

with what you're saying, i honestly think and ATI card will be fine. if you were going with just one screen, i'd even say to leave out the card entirely and just use high-end intel graphics.

EDIT: for specific ATI cards, i don't know much; maybe you could ask Eeems?
Ew! :P Intel GRAPHICS CARDS would never rank higher than last on my list. >_<
I love Intel but their graphics cards are not very good.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 06:33:07 pm by XiiR3CR34T10N »

Offline The_King

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2013, 08:17:43 pm »

Ew! :P Intel GRAPHICS CARDS would never rank higher than last on my list. >_<
I love Intel but their graphics cards are not very good.


yup nvidia is 10000x better

Offline willrandship

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2013, 10:00:41 pm »
The thing about Intel's GPUs is that, while they aren't so good, the drivers for linux support them fully. The GPUs in the newer ones aren't THAT bad, and they have great linux support with open source drivers.

Offline XiiDraco

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2013, 12:33:04 am »
For Linux you are probably right, I wouldn't know. I tried Ubuntu, couldn't figure out anything and then switched back to windows because I'm just way to lazy and I've had 16 years of experience with windows only (My dad works for Microsoft)

Offline Streetwalrus

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2013, 02:28:33 am »
I'm popping in a bit late but here are some tips :
-CPU : Intel 4670k (~€200) or 3770k (~€300)
-Mobo : Asus Z87 pro (~€180)
-CPU cooler : Cooler Master Hyper 212 evo (~€30)
-RAM : no brand in particular, but pick some PC3-14900, CAS 9 RAM, a dual channel 16GB kit is about €120 and is well worth it (make sure not to choose "value" RAM though at this speed you prolly wont find any)
-GPU : definitely one with an AMD chip. Much better price:perf ratio than Nvidia (like, a lot cheaper). For the board any brand will do, just pick one of the latest gen within your budget.
-SSD : I'm no expert so I can't help much but 64 or 128GB should be enough to hold your system partitions. I don't have one.
-HDD : Much faster than an SSD for bulk reads (SSD is better at random access hence why people use them for their sys partition but not mass storage). I have a Seagate Barracuda and it's very fast at random access too. Pick a 7200 RPM one.
-Optical drive : Up to you. BD reader/DVD burner combos are ~€50 nowadays. Since I barely ever use optical disks I have a no-name DVD burner that I didn't even use yet.
-Case : You want one with good cooling. The more fans, the better. ~€50-60
-PSU : Don't neglect it. 750W should be plenty, modular is better and if it's 80plus certified it's even better though it's not needed (I have an Akasa Cobra 750W which is not certified but it works quite well)

For the display, IPS all the way. 1080p of course and anything between 22 and 27 inches is the most comfortable.
For Linux, I guess you're pretty much settled with Arch so stick with it. :P

Offline XiiDraco

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2013, 11:02:15 am »
I feel like this topic is to come here and bash on each others like's on computer hardware. XD

We are probably confusing the heck out of Sorunome. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:02:26 am by XiiR3CR34T10N »

Offline Sorunome

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2013, 11:05:37 am »
I feel like this topic is to come here and bash on each others like's on computer hardware. XD

We are probably confusing the heck out of Sorunome. 
That :P

CPU - i5?
RAM - 6GB+
SSD - 128GB
HDD - 1TB+
GPU - ?
Mobo - ?
PSU - ?

meh

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Offline Streetwalrus

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2013, 11:25:30 am »
Yeah I guess you got it.
CPU : i5, or i7 if you're gonna build massive software often. In any case chose the Haswell K series (model number 4xxxK). These are the latest and K means you can OC it so you can freely upgrade. Also get a good cooler, Intel's sucks ass.
RAM : 8 or 16GB. 6 is definitely not enough and should only be used with triple channel setups anyway. PC3-14900 is the speed you should take as it's a good speed:price ratio.
SSD and HDD : You pick. A typical setup is SSD for the OS and HDD for mass data storage, so 64 or 128GB and 1 or 2TB.
GPU : If you don't plan on gaming (recent games) at all, then none. The new IGPs in Intel CPUs are very good. Else AMDs are cheaper than Nvidia so if you don't have a personnal preference go for AMD. Pick the best one that fits your budget.
Mobo : The key to chosing a good mobo is the chipset. You probably want the Intel z87 since it's the best one for custom built PCs. Then any brand will do. Your budget and the specificities each mobo has will help you picking the right one.
PSU : http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp will help you pick the right wattage. Give yourself some upgrading margin in the specs you input. Looking for 80plus certified PSUs is also a good idea but not necessary. Also please don't pick a random no-name one.

Hope it boils down what you wanted to know. I tried to be as objective as possible here.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:30:03 am by Streetwalker »

Offline Sorunome

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Re: Wanting to get a desktop
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2013, 11:32:37 am »
I don't want no GPU as i want at least two screens, probably more later on.
Also, I want to be able to watch vids on full HD without lagging what they do on my lappy >.<

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