Author Topic: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !  (Read 8172 times)

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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2013, 02:21:33 am »
ROM8x is still possible, indeed, which makes for at least 5 possible ways to dump a calculator:
* ASM programs running on the calculator and dumping some pages to files, which can then be retrieved with TI-Connect / TILP and used with ROM8x-type tools;
* DBUS ROM dumping as implemented for other TI-Z80 and TI-68k models in libticalcs (not done yet);
* DUSB ROM dumping as implemented for B/W 84+(SE) in libticalcs (not done yet);
* 83+ family memory page dump DBUS command (Jonimus' dumper, based on his titools patches I integrated into libticalcs), slower than the other libticalcs ROM dumpers because it does not optimize pages containing highly redundant content. That command doesn't exist in the TI-68k series (at least, in AMS 3.10 for 89T), it wouldn't work the exact same way anyway;
* even ASM programs printing the memory contents to the screen, and then computer-side OCR on the movie (similar to TI-80 and TI-81) - slow, cumbersome, error-prone method of last resort if there were none of the 4 other ways, but possible nonetheless.
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Offline critor

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 10:45:37 am »
Since 2007, TI adopted a strategy that involves releasing calcs before everything is even ready at all.

So it's up to us - let's resume TI's work and release patches/fixes for the current TI-84+C OS bugs like we allready did for the TI-83+/84! ;)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 10:45:55 am by critor »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2013, 11:14:45 pm »
ROM8x is still possible, indeed, which makes for at least 5 possible ways to dump a calculator:
* ASM programs running on the calculator and dumping some pages to files, which can then be retrieved with TI-Connect / TILP and used with ROM8x-type tools;
* DBUS ROM dumping as implemented for other TI-Z80 and TI-68k models in libticalcs (not done yet);
* DUSB ROM dumping as implemented for B/W 84+(SE) in libticalcs (not done yet);
* 83+ family memory page dump DBUS command (Jonimus' dumper, based on his titools patches I integrated into libticalcs), slower than the other libticalcs ROM dumpers because it does not optimize pages containing highly redundant content. That command doesn't exist in the TI-68k series (at least, in AMS 3.10 for 89T), it wouldn't work the exact same way anyway;
* even ASM programs printing the memory contents to the screen, and then computer-side OCR on the movie (similar to TI-80 and TI-81) - slow, cumbersome, error-prone method of last resort if there were none of the 4 other ways, but possible nonetheless.

And I assume that doing it via direct USB would be possible, right? Because via silver link it's incredibly slow. I liked how fast (and reliable) it was with ROM8x.
Since 2007, TI adopted a strategy that involves releasing calcs before everything is even ready at all.

So it's up to us - let's resume TI's work and release patches/fixes for the current TI-84+C OS bugs like we allready did for the TI-83+/84! ;)

Indeed. :P However this time with some slower commands we will also need some extra ASM libs like the 160x240 mode so that BASIC coders (who will most likely be the largest coder base on this calc) can take advantage of it too.
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Offline FloppusMaximus

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2013, 12:00:57 am »
Well, I've finally tracked down all the undocumented system addresses BrandonW used in his DUSB ROM dumper, and it seems to be working now. :)  The DBUS dumper is also working (much faster than tidump, naturally, though not as fast as DUSB.)

However, in both cases, remotely launching the program is causing problems.  At least part of the problem, I think, is that the homescreen is just *so slow.*  In the case of the DUSB dumper, remote launching seems to work in Classic mode but not in Mathprint mode.  For the DBUS dumper, it fails in both modes.  I'll have to play around more to figure this out.

Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2013, 02:09:04 am »
Quote
And I assume that doing it via direct USB would be possible, right?
Yup, that was the third item in my list, although it was slightly obscured by the fact I used "DUSB" to match the convention in the libticalcs sources. "DBUS" is the classic protocol on legacy I/O, "DUSB" is the 84+ / 89T direct USB protocol.

Benjamin: great to see you've ported the ROM dumpers, but I'm disappointed (well, once again, and certainly not for the last time) by the slowness of the 84+CSE... For DBUS, would using the 0xCA command help ?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 02:09:37 am by Lionel Debroux »
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Offline DrDnar

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2013, 03:19:39 am »
The signaling rate of the Silverlink, if I remember correctly, is limited by TI to about 2 Kbyte/s, so half-an-hour for a complete dump is about right. You could make it considerably faster by adding logic that detects and avoids unused pages, or just hard-coding the sectors of the ROM unlikely to be important. A blacklink might get considerably higher throughput under some circumstances, but since you can't (by design) maintain complete CPU control in the protected and fully-preemptive environment that all modern OSes provide, the link may be less stable at high speeds.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2013, 02:40:08 am »
Good to hear that work is being done on this. :) As for the ROM dumping, I wonder if it will ever be possible to do it via direct link via an alternative to the home screen?  It sucks that the slow calc speed hinders this.
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Offline FloppusMaximus

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2013, 04:19:40 pm »
Lionel: In fact, the 89/CA commands would, I think, have the same problem that the DUSB remote control command has: namely, that after you send the command, the calc then types out "Asm(prgmROMDUMP)", one token at a time, on the homescreen, which (owing to MathPrint combined with the slow LCD driver) means it takes a second or two for the program to actually be launched.  I increased the delay in calc_84p.c to 3 seconds and it seems to work now.

The issue with the DBUS dumper was a different one.  In that case, I was using the internal link routines (linksw.asm) rather than the system ones - the internal routines don't work when the link assist is enabled.  (The OS automatically disables the link assist when it's idle, which is why the program worked when I launched it manually.)  Still, nice to know that the software method still works. :)

DrDnar: What you describe (skipping unused areas) is essentially what we do with the TILP ROM dumping protocol.  It would also be possible, in theory, to add an option in TILP to dump only the OS and skip the archive/apps completely.  I think, though, that the standard behavior of dumping a complete Flash snapshot is a useful one (and it avoids any possible problems with future OSes, from TI or third parties, that occupy a different subset of Flash.)

DJ: The issue was really just with the remote program launching; once it's launched, the ROM dumper itself is plenty fast enough.  When I tried it before it took about 3 minutes to dump over USB and about 4 minutes with the SilverLink.  (My archive is still mostly empty, though; a calc with a lot of programs installed will take significantly longer.  I also haven't timed the latest version.)

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Re: TI-Connect 4.0 and 84C OS 4.0 released !
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2013, 11:12:35 pm »
Also is it possible to make a ROM dumper not overly sensitive to any computer CPU usage spikes? On Cemetech there is a SilverLink ROM dumper but I can't get past page 5 or 6 most of the time and the farthest I ever got was 1F (and it was after setting the ROM dumper process to real time), because it stops dumping if my computer CPU usage increases by 0.000000000000001%.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF


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