Author Topic: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?  (Read 11687 times)

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Offline Slaith

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How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« on: October 12, 2013, 05:28:59 pm »
I have a cx CAS and I would like to know how I can do I/O through the USB port i.e. what commands do I use?

Offline Adriweb

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 05:53:30 pm »
Well, this is not possible neither through Basic nor Lua.
In C(++), with Ndless, there might be some things you could find. Try to look at ndlessly and Hackspire.
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Offline Roondak

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 12:38:43 am »
I thought there was only one usb port?

EDIT: Sorry, I see it's for, not 4. For some reason I read it as USB through pin 4 (presumably in the serial port.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 12:26:39 am by Roondak »

Offline Slaith

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 05:02:57 am »
Well, this is not possible neither through Basic nor Lua.
In C(++), with Ndless, there might be some things you could find. Try to look at ndlessly and Hackspire.b

It seemed like a great machine but the more I learn about it the less I am liking it! I just wanted a simple way to use it to control things for my 10 year-old son. There should be a simple catalog command to send and receive data through the USB port! How much  
work would it be for gosh sakes TI???!!!!!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 05:04:34 am by Slaith »

Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 05:03:59 am »
TI has always been concerned more about locking the calculator down and making it less useful to users. They're only worsening over time.

Depending on what you want to control, embedded ARM-based boards such as the highly popular Raspberry Pi, the Cubieboard, the BeagleBone Black, and others, are all of:
* much more powerful;
* much more open;
* much easier;
* much cheaper;
than any calculator on the market. Even the newly released HP Prime.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 05:06:51 am by Lionel Debroux »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 12:40:02 pm »
Yeah the only things I can recommend if you want to stick with calculator programming (I hope you stick around here no matter what, though, since over here there are also people interested in non-calculator related material ;)) is maybe get a refund explaining it's the wrong calc and you needed the 89Titanium, HP Prime, etc, then instead buy an older TI-Nspire CX used on Ebay or at a pawn shop and make sure that it runs OS 3.1 or below. Or you can of course go with an alternate calc. The most open calculators are the Z80 and 68K series, then comes the FX-9860G/FX-cg10/20 series. The HP Prime is a bit cheaper and more powerful than the Nspire, but it cannot run ASM yet either.

TI has done everything to make sure that no hacking occurs on the TI-Nspire line. They're getting even worse than Apple now and they spend more time locking the platform down than fixing bugs.


The only alternative besides a boycott is that customers e-mail TI requesting the ability to downgrade back or be able to use Ndless again, but how many people will it take?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 12:43:38 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 12:51:42 pm »
Well you say they spend more time locking than fixing. This simple equation actually works : TI = APP£€ * Micro$oft. :P

Offline Slaith

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 04:14:49 am »
TI has always been concerned more about locking the calculator down and making it less useful to users. They're only worsening over time.

Depending on what you want to control, embedded ARM-based boards such as the highly popular Raspberry Pi, the Cubieboard, the BeagleBone Black, and others, are all of:
* much more powerful;
* much more open;
* much easier;
* much cheaper;
than any calculator on the market. Even the newly released HP Prime.

Dear Lionel,

Thank you very much for your response but I am struggling to understand exactly what your point is?

Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 04:24:54 am »
I was replying to the following sentence of yours:
Quote
I just wanted a simple way to use it to control things for my 10 year-old son
I'm not sure what that encompasses, but I can confirm you that the Nspire is a very poor platform for programming, as you've found.
Even though it has a built-in screen, keyboard and battery, it's overly expensive and limited, compared to other recent platforms whose programmability is a design goal of (instead of being considered an anti-feature by) the manufacturer.
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Offline Slaith

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 04:25:31 am »
Yeah the only things I can recommend if you want to stick with calculator programming (I hope you stick around here no matter what, though, since over here there are also people interested in non-calculator related material ;)) is maybe get a refund explaining it's the wrong calc and you needed the 89Titanium, HP Prime, etc, then instead buy an older TI-Nspire CX used on Ebay or at a pawn shop and make sure that it runs OS 3.1 or below. Or you can of course go with an alternate calc. The most open calculators are the Z80 and 68K series, then comes the FX-9860G/FX-cg10/20 series. The HP Prime is a bit cheaper and more powerful than the Nspire, but it cannot run ASM yet either.

TI has done everything to make sure that no hacking occurs on the TI-Nspire line. They're getting even worse than Apple now and they spend more time locking the platform down than fixing bugs.


The only alternative besides a boycott is that customers e-mail TI requesting the ability to downgrade back or be able to use Ndless again, but how many people will it take?

DJ Omnimaga,

Believe me I DO HEAR YOU! The problem is that its their hardware and patents etc so ideally we could spend a lot of time decrypting their algorithms or as we say in EW countermeasures and they will countermeasure our countermeasures etc ad infinitim until one of  goes bankrupt or...
BTW I go back to the 70's and I am very very familiar with UCPU technology and can easily use whatever CPU but my 10 year old son & daughter with a cx CAS????

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 11:14:43 pm »
The problem is that its their hardware and patents etc so ideally we could spend a lot of time decrypting their algorithms or as we say in EW countermeasures and they will countermeasure our countermeasures etc ad infinitim until one of  goes bankrupt or...
True, although to clarify, once you buy a TI-Nspire CX, TI no longer owns it nor its hardware. They still hold the patents and copyrights, but after the calc gets out of the store, they can't dictate what you can do with it anymore, so it's obvious that the TI programming community will attempt to fight for that right. TI might have reasons to block the hardware, but we live in free countries for the most part (or countries where doing what we want with purchased hardware is allowed).

Also, the Internet can get pretty dangerous if people feel that a company goes too far (in some case it can cause damages to both the company and users). Look what happened when Sony tried to sue George Hotz for the PS3 jailbreaks: Anonymous retaliated by launching numerous attacks on Sony's servers, causing PSN to collapse and compromising millions of user accounts.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:15:59 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
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Offline bsl

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 01:59:00 am »
Attached are 3 NavNet demo scripts.
They are by no means complete full demos, but short examples.
These can be starters for C programs.
1) One script dumps the screen - classic Nspire only, but can easily be changed to dump the CX screen .
2) Sending keys from pc to the calculator, but only the keys supported by pc keyboard - you need nRemote for all the keys.
3) Send a message from the calc to the computer using the Login dialog .


Offline Slaith

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 10:06:26 pm »
True, although to clarify, once you buy a TI-Nspire CX, TI no longer owns it nor its hardware. They still hold the patents and copyrights, but after the calc gets out of the store, they can't dictate what you can do with it anymore, so it's obvious that the TI programming community will attempt to fight for that right. TI might have reasons to block the hardware, but we live in free countries for the most part (or countries where doing what we want with purchased hardware is allowed).

Lets suppose I write some code to bypass all the test mode security but make it look like it is in the test mode and even have access to other additional capabilities the teacher is unaware of and I post it out on the internet. What do you think would happen? It would be banned from all tests and less people would buy it and TI would lose money and go after me even if it was difficult to find me. That's their greatest fear. If we keep beating their security at every OS version they will eventually give up and stop producing the calc or calcs in general. Another concern is intellectual property in that they invested a great deal of money in developing some of the software and they don't want others to have access to it. What algorithm do they use for computing the ln(matrix)  and e^(matrix) for example? Not easy to do it well. Why didn't they include matrix root(matrix) since they already have exp,ln and matrix^-1? There are a billion questions like these but it all comes down to money. If we zero or reduce their profit enough then they have to invest the money elsewhere.

Also, the Internet can get pretty dangerous if people feel that a company goes too far (in some case it can cause damages to both the company and users). Look what happened when Sony tried to sue George Hotz for the PS3 jailbreaks: Anonymous retaliated by launching numerous attacks on Sony's servers, causing PSN to collapse and compromising millions of user accounts.

Sony did sue him and he did settle and He thought Anonymous was wrong for doing what they did. I don't think that it should be legal to sue him for what he did or others do!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 10:09:58 pm by Slaith »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2013, 10:59:42 pm »
Regarding programs to bypass the test mode, if you post such file on Omnimaga or Cemetech forums, I doubt it would remain online for long, as moderators would delete it in a heartbeat. I am pretty sure on TI-Planet it would be the same. Of course you can cheat with nLaunch but that's not the purpose of this software, which is why forum people are relunctant about helping anyone using it and why the documentation isn't very clear. Cheaters would have to rely on other sites like TPB or some random personal website with poor Google ranking in order to find such file. The TI community in general is well aware of the damage such program can cause and even if such program was harmless for the calc future, many people on calculator websites like maths, physics and such school classes and they hate with a passion when someone tries to cheat.

Also, if Ndless could cause the Nspire to be banned from tests, then why hasn't the TI-83 Plus, 84 Plus and 84 Plus C Silver Edition (which all have native ASM support) been banned already?
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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: How can I do IO through the USB port 4 cx CAS?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 01:26:39 am »
Quote
Regarding programs to bypass the test mode, if you post such file on Omnimaga or Cemetech forums, I doubt it would remain online for long, as moderators would delete it in a heartbeat. I am pretty sure on TI-Planet it would be the same.
Multiple such programs were already posted in 2012, right after (and clearly in retaliation to) OS 3.2. The end result of moderation was that such software ended up being posted on cncalc. The software would be far harder to remove from so-called "takedown-resistant hosting", should such hosting be used.

Quote
Of course you can cheat with nLaunch but that's not the purpose of this software, which is why forum people are relunctant about helping anyone using it and why the documentation isn't very clear.
TI-Planet's tutorials are believed to be clearer.

Quote
Also, if Ndless could cause the Nspire to be banned from tests, then why hasn't the TI-83 Plus, 84 Plus and 84 Plus C Silver Edition (which all have native ASM support) been banned already?
There's no proper CAS for any member of the TI-Z80 series; the Nspire series does have a proper CAS. nLaunch / nLaunch CX / nLaunchy would be more likely to get the Nspire banned than Ndless is.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 01:27:56 am by Lionel Debroux »
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