Author Topic: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]  (Read 30968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Clacualters are teh gr33t
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55942
  • Rating: +3154/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • Dream of Omnimaga Music
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2010, 05:57:39 pm »
wow, I wouldn't be surprised if TI did that to advertise the Nspire CAS to make Nspire users buy a second calc x.x

I wonder indeed if it could be unlocked through Ndless programs
Now active at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF (CodeWalrus server)

Offline theUnnamed

  • LV3 Member (Next: 100)
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
  • Rating: +3/-3
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2010, 06:46:41 pm »
I say the CAS OS and Non CAS OS are identical they are just configured slightly differently look at the file sizes of the OSes anyone notice that the NON CAS OS is bigger despite having a less complicated task a CAS is big an i doubt its smaller then the 84 emulator packaged with the Non CAS Nspires OS case and point the non cas nspire is the same os only crippled all we have to do is figure out how to un-cripple it which likely comes down to either a  configuration file change or the modification of a few pointer and we have everything.  If i had an unencrypted version of both OSes I'd find the parser and find the array of function pointers that point to the code executing the commands and start there.  But that's just me.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 06:47:35 pm by theUnnamed »

Offline apcalc

  • The Game
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1393
  • Rating: +120/-2
  • VGhlIEdhbWUh (Base 64 :))
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2010, 06:57:12 pm »
Also, all of the CAS features are on the non-CAS, just not listed.  Even those, such as taylor(, that are no where to be found in the catalog, get the error message "CAS needed."  There must be some way to "unlock" the CAS features.


Offline theUnnamed

  • LV3 Member (Next: 100)
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
  • Rating: +3/-3
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2010, 08:22:59 pm »
Wow that makes me even more confident that they are just code switches

Offline apcalc

  • The Game
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1393
  • Rating: +120/-2
  • VGhlIEdhbWUh (Base 64 :))
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2010, 09:51:36 pm »
Another interesting thing is that it never "completes" the calculation.  It is not really an error message, but simply a dialog box that appears.  For example, if I type x+1 without having x defined, it actually "completes" the calculation, with the "answer" being "Error: Variable not defined"  When using the CAS unsupported features, the dialog box appears and it goes right back to the original line, as if nothing ever happened.  There could be just a line or two of code blocking the calculation from progressing.


Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Clacualters are teh gr33t
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55942
  • Rating: +3154/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • Dream of Omnimaga Music
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2010, 12:18:35 am »
that said, I wonder if those commands code is really in the non-CAS os, though. They most likely used most space for the 84+ emulator instead. Is the CAS OS considerably larger in file size than the non-CAS one?
Now active at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF (CodeWalrus server)

Offline Lionel Debroux

  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2135
  • Rating: +290/-45
    • View Profile
    • TI-Chess Team
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2010, 07:50:23 am »
The Nspire CAS OS are actually smaller than the non-CAS OS are, because the CAS OS doesn't have the 84+ emulator + ROM :)

I am among those who think that since TI declared war on the community, by attacking the OS versions that Ndless 1 supports, they should be hit back. Running CAS OS on the non-CAS model is probably one of the most powerful ways to do it.
The bigwigs at TI had to take into account the predictable consequences of their actions before 1) they locked down the Nspire models, 2) they used abusive DMCA takedowns against the keys' factorizations and 3) they attacked TI-Bank. Now the gloves are off, IMO.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 10:40:56 am by Lionel Debroux »
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Clacualters are teh gr33t
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55942
  • Rating: +3154/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • Dream of Omnimaga Music
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2010, 12:13:44 pm »
I personally would prefer to not host copies of the OSes (or tools made purposely to install a CAS OS on a normal Nspire) myself on the site if they ever came out, though, after what happened on TI-BANK with the other OSes. I may tolerate links to them, but not hosting them directly, in case TI would send a DMCA notice directly to 1and1 instead of myself. In links case, 1and1 wouldn't be able to do much besides maybe asking me to remove the links, because I wouldn't be hosting any illegal files.

Also it would kinda suck if schools banned Nspires due to people running CAS OSes on them, but again, on the 83+ there are apps and programs with 89 functions and schools still allow those calcs anyway (altough some teachers require a mem reset prior tests).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 12:15:21 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
Now active at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF (CodeWalrus server)

Offline willrandship

  • Omnimagus of the Multi-Base.
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2953
  • Rating: +98/-13
  • Insert sugar to begin programming subroutine.
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2010, 04:13:58 pm »
I don't think space will be too much of an issue, as varying amounts of free space show that the OS actually uses the same space documents do. I'm willing to sacrifice a few MB for a solve command. How about you?

How much code does an algebra solver actually use? I've always wondered how hard it would be to write one.

Offline bwang

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 634
  • Rating: +30/-11
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2010, 05:21:58 pm »
CASes are not very large at all. YACAS is ~600KB.
As for how hard it is to write one, it strongly depends on how many features you want.
*Expansion is relatively easy.
*Equation solving greatly varies depending on what equations you want to solve (easy to solve polynomials, hard to solve stuff like sqrt(x) + sqrt(x+1) = sqrt(x+2)).
*Differentiation is not too bad.
*Algebraic simplification varies depending on how powerful you want the simplifier to be.
*Symbolic matrices are easy once you have everything else done.
*Rational integration is doable (I had one in Nspire BASIC).
*Algebraic integration is very, very, very hard. The description of the algorithm fills a large   chapter in a textbook, and even then is tricky to understand.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 05:22:18 pm by bwang »

Offline willrandship

  • Omnimagus of the Multi-Base.
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2953
  • Rating: +98/-13
  • Insert sugar to begin programming subroutine.
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2010, 10:46:24 pm »
Good to know. Perhaps we could port an open source CAS like octave. Depending on the power required, perhaps we could make a z80 version!

Haha, that would really mess with TI's view on assembly. TI-84+s and 83+s able to solve algebra. Granted, it could take quite a while for some problems to calculate, but it's the idea that counts.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Clacualters are teh gr33t
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55942
  • Rating: +3154/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • Dream of Omnimaga Music
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2010, 11:24:10 pm »
True, altough it's them who decided to leave their old calcs open to ASM lol. They should have known in 1999 that leaving their 83+ open to ASM would allow people to write CAS softwares for them (even if not necessarly complete)
Now active at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF (CodeWalrus server)

Offline bwang

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 634
  • Rating: +30/-11
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2010, 11:40:27 pm »
Octave is not a CAS. We might be able to port XCAS or YACAS to the Nspire; I doubt we could do Maxima because its a rather large program (>32 MB, so the unmodified version won't even fit on the Nspire).
XCAS, in particular, has a stand-alone computation kernel called GIAC written in C++. Does anyone know whether C++ programs work on the Nspire?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 11:41:46 pm by bwang »

Offline willrandship

  • Omnimagus of the Multi-Base.
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2953
  • Rating: +98/-13
  • Insert sugar to begin programming subroutine.
    • View Profile
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2010, 10:25:28 pm »
Well, the solve( command is all one would need to cheat on the ACT, but I suppose that's not really the goal.

I'm just thinking: the 92 takes about a second for the quadratic formula. How long would that translate to in the 83+s mere 6 mhz?

C works on the NSpire, but not C++. A port wouldn't be quite as easy due to changes from C to C++, but still very possible. Definitely much easier than, say, asm to Axe parser, as the languages are very similar in structure.

Offline calc84maniac

  • eZ80 Guru
  • Coder Of Tomorrow
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2912
  • Rating: +471/-17
    • View Profile
    • TI-Boy CE
Re: CAS OS on Standard TI-nspire [development idea]
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2010, 11:01:51 pm »
Well, the solve( command is all one would need to cheat on the ACT, but I suppose that's not really the goal.

I'm just thinking: the 92 takes about a second for the quadratic formula. How long would that translate to in the 83+s mere 6 mhz?

C works on the NSpire, but not C++. A port wouldn't be quite as easy due to changes from C to C++, but still very possible. Definitely much easier than, say, asm to Axe parser, as the languages are very similar in structure.
What is it about C++ that wouldn't work on Nspire? I'm pretty sure it would work.
"Most people ask, 'What does a thing do?' Hackers ask, 'What can I make it do?'" - Pablos Holman