Author Topic: Pokemon Purple  (Read 21793 times)

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Offline Adriweb

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 07:35:48 am »
Ah, I didn't rememebr it started such a long time ago :P
(Also yes, a color version would be quite cool lol (but slower ?)
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Offline tifreak

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 08:12:55 am »
From what I've seen, slower is an understatement. :/
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Offline Sorunome

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 08:54:32 pm »
I think he should first finish the normal version, but yeah, a color version would be kinda cool :D (or a sound version?)

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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 03:57:32 am »
I think he should first finish the normal version, but yeah, a color version would be kinda cool :D (or a sound version?)

Tifreak, I think he wants you to port Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver to calcs. O.O
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Offline Roboman

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2013, 12:49:36 pm »
Necro-post for my favorite thread  :ninja:
About the sprite drawing, iirc you kinda gave up and made the pokemon sprites drawn by asm because basic was too slow...
Why can't you use that text-sprite trick(the one with the for loop displaying characters).  Wouldn't that display the pixels fast enough to make drawing the pokemon fast enough to be viable in basic?
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Re: Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2013, 04:57:10 pm »
Text sprites would be an idea I guess, although I wonder if file size would skyrocket?
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Offline meishe91

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2013, 05:03:05 pm »
The size may or may not be an issue. While hex data represents four pixels in every one "number" (he is using hex right?), text sprites would be five pixels (I believe) to every one character stored, but vertically instead of horizontally. So there is promise there. However, there is one, or two or something, combinations that are not possible with text sprites. (If I remember everything correctly...) But also, when you get to size, you may end up having a whole extra row of data because you have...16x16 (?)...sprites, which isn't divisible by 5 evenly...So that could be where you're wasting space.

(By the way, I am extremely tired...so if the above statement does not make sense, let me know and I'll try to rewrite it. I also didn't bother doing the math because I'm far too lazy for that as of right now.)

EDIT:
Okay, I did some math now. Since I'm fairly sure all his Pokemon are 16x16 the size wouldn't actually change at all. This is because with hex you are storing 4 characters for the columns (4 is the number of pixels per number, so 16 / 4 = 4) by 16 characters for rows (since you need a new character for each new row) while if you use text sprites you will have 16 column characters by 4 row characters (5 * 4 = 20; 20 > 16). If you used 3 row characters you'd be missing an entire row.

However, this changes if he were to use 32x32 sprites (which I think he is for the NPCs?). In which case you'd have 8x32 characters for hex (8 = 32 / 4), while you'd have 32x7 for text sprites (7 * 5 = 35; 35 > 32). So, you'd have 256 characters per every hex sprite, and 224 for every text sprite. Which turns out to be a 32 character difference.

I believe my math is correct, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Anywho, what I basically mean by this is that size isn't really an issue. The only issue, assuming what I said is correct, is that text sprites don't represent every combination of pixels. So if you had a Pokemon sprite that used specific combination of pixels you'd either have to go without those pixels, change the entire sprite so it doesn't use that combination, or write in a specific case in the display routine that will turn that pixel on (which...isn't a bad idea really...).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:32:35 pm by meishe91 »
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Offline Roboman

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 08:25:13 pm »
I thought of that.  But i'm pretty sure the unavailability of certain combinations does not take into account symbols you cannot type in normally(#,@...).
I'm glad this looks promising :D  I was a bit sad when he announced doing the pokemon sprites with asm.

EDIT:
Also, check this out   ;) http://tifreakware.net/tutorials/83p/b/misc/2dsprite.htm
It's on his site, idk if he forgot about it or had good reason to not use text sprites  XD
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 08:27:55 pm by Roboman »
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Offline meishe91

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 08:55:52 pm »
Nah, I'm pretty sure even with the extended characters you can't. I remember making a text sprite maker a long time ago and making sure there wasn't any hidden character that fills them in. (I'm pretty sure you have to use some for the combinations...)

Oh, and he most certainly knows how to use them. I mean it's tifreak :P He just has his reasons, such as the none-usable combinations or speed or something.
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Offline Roboman

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2013, 09:22:52 pm »
Well, it looks like textsprites save a lot of speed and a nice amount of size.  Considering there are 151 pokemon sprites (+ backsprites?)  it would be well worth it to add a little bit of code and data to swap out the pixels of the sprite he cannot* make work with characters.

*cannot is not the same as will not
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Offline meishe91

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 09:53:06 pm »
But they don't save any size unless he converts the 32x32 sprites to them. And they don't necessarily save speed. It all depends on the algorithm you write. (Which, knowing him he'd optimize that crap out of it until it was as small/fast as possible.) I mean I'd be willing to bet the assembly version is much faster because, well, it's assembly. It's inherently much, much faster than TI-BASIC. Assembly will also give a very smooth animation as everything will display evenly, if not instantaneously, from the speed. Text sprites need to be drawn either straight left to right, with a five pixel skip interval vertically, slowing down slightly the further into the string you read.

But again, I'm assuming he has his reasons for using assembly instead of text sprites.
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Offline Roboman

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 09:59:17 pm »
Yeah, but the point of pokemon purple is to push ti-BASIC to its limit, to make the best possible game with BASIC
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Offline meishe91

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 10:03:07 pm »
Yes, but the other point is that it's his game and he has his reasons. Which, he has them. Honestly, he's probably considered all of this before (or maybe not, I can't read his mind). For all we know, the assembly is smaller and better. Ultimately though, it's not our choice. It's his.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 10:17:57 pm by meishe91 »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 10:21:15 pm »
One thing I wonder, though, is that since Tifreak has been doing TI-BASIC for 17 years and knew this trick for at least 7 years (if not longer), then there must be a reason why he's not using it. The project started in 2005, but back then it didn't even have sprites yet.

Btw, are every combination of pixels possible using text sprites? If they aren't, then it's possible that this might be why he isn't using that trick.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 10:22:17 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
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Offline meishe91

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Re: Pokemon Purple
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 10:30:20 pm »
Ya, that's what I was saying. He's well aware of the method, but there is some reason he isn't. Whether it's speed, size, or something else.

Also, no if I remember correctly. There are most combinations but not all. I can't remember how many though, I think it's like 2...but not entirely sure. Z, or somebody, would know :P And ya, that's what I was saying in my longer post. That he'd either have to go without that set and substitute something else in OR he'd have to write in a specific statement that says "if this is a combination that doesn't exist, use the closest combination and turn on the correct pixels manually".
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