### Author Topic: Dear Omnimaga  (Read 7910 times)

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#### pimathbrainiac

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2014, 05:37:42 pm »
Well you are listed as support staff instead of admin, so I think that confuses some people (although you've explained this on hcwp to me before several times).
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#### Geekboy1011

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2014, 05:40:06 pm »
Idk why It was support staff its sposed to have been Co-Owner

#### pimathbrainiac

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2014, 05:43:26 pm »
Well now it is, and some of the confusion is more easily cleared up.

As a note to the general user base: I think we should wait until all the impending changes are done until we list our problems with the changes, as some of these might already be on the admins' radar.
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#### Eeems

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2014, 06:05:14 pm »
There have been many reported issues that were literally ignored. Part of the issue is http://ourl.ca/issue. That thing is in no way a proper issue tracker. This subforum is a much better place to be heard, but you guys are encouraging the use of an unusable feature instead.
You are correct, that is not a proper issue tracker, we could be more transparent on our issue managment. I can tell you though that there are only eight issues currently on the issue queue, of them only three haven't been touched yet. Some "issues" reported with ourl.ca/issue are not concidered an issue but a request (Which should use ourl.ca/request) and have been moved to that queue instead. That queue is much larger currently, but since it's not a break in functionality, implementing it has a lower priority then the issue log.
If you feel that there are many issues that have been ignored, could you compile a list of them and bring them to us so we can let you know what has happened with them and why?

In response to the fact that you called ourl.ca/issue unusable, could you let me know how it is unusable? As far as I can see people have been able to submit issues and we have been able to resolve them. While yes, the public can't see what is going on in the issue tracker behind the scenes, things are being done. There is also a plan in place to replace it with a proper issue tracker that will have email notifications and more for users. The issue with the subforum is that it also is not a proper issue tracker. Things reported there are easily lost and forgotten about. With the tool we are currently using, it is rather easy to see how many issues there are, who is working on them, what their priority is and if anything

In my experience, Eeems can come across as over-bearing, but my disagreements with him are almost certainly not the ones you have. People never see 90+% of administrative discussions because we deliberately keep them out of public.
I'm just use to being very direct with people I feel comfortable with

Tell us. Pull someone aside in a PM and say "what he did was not cool, here are the logs". I have personally called other admins out for being arses before and I'll have no problem either doing it again or explaining why it was not as it may seem. We're here to listen to you, but we can do our job much more effectively if you talk to us.
Thank you for calling me out when you do btw. I quite appreciate it.
So we were saying "we feel that Eeems is not perfect".
And you answered "he's the most perfect of all our admins, he does everything".
That is not what they are saying, and that is not how you have come across with this. When a public "petition" is posted about a specific person without first talking to that person about your grievances and trying to resolve them. When you have also not talked with the other authorities and brought your grievances forward. Then no matter what your intentions are the person brought into question, and the authorities who you have also spurned will see this as an attack against the person in question.
What was said was also not that I was the most perfect of all the admins, it was only that I am the most publicly facing of all admins and that I'm not acting on my own whims.
Well maybe what this means is that since Eeems has to do everything on his own, he's getting stressed out and gets bitter sometimes when some of us complain about almost nothing when he made so much work.
I do not have to do everything on my own, but quite often I have to go out of my way to make sure that the other admins get involved in things in a timely manner. This is something we are working on for our internal process. It's understandable that they are quite busy with their schooling/work. I'm one of the lucky ones who works on a computer all day long and thus able to see things almost as they happen and react (Unless I'm busy in meetings).
I do get stress though and sometimes a little bitter about people complaining about things that I'm working hard on implementing. Thus is the life of a sysadmin.
So maybe we were actually not targetting at the right problem, but that doesn't mean there is no problem.
I agree
There's a reason why we didn't talk of it with other admins, it's because we never see them. Maybe they come once a day and do things but we never hear of them, we only see Eeems, we can only talk to Eeems.
I'm pretty sure geekboy is on a lot, and shmibs is on in the evening every day or so.
So maybe admins should be more present, or more numerous, or both, so that Eeems doesn't have to do everything on his own, and he'll be less stressed out and nicer, and we would feel better. Plus, work would be done faster.
I would like for them to be more active and to help with the issue/request logs, I prod them about it almost daily. I usually am nicer when I have no stress
Sorry Eeems if we have hurt you if it wasn't your fault. But since you were the only one present and bitter (probably due to being tired), we felt like you were the problem even though probably not.
I wouldn't say I was all that bitter at the time. Thank you for the apology though, it's greatly appreciated
In disagreement with the OP, http://ourl.ca/issue is not ineffective. If you prod an admin about something you put in the issue form, they will tell you the result, BUT in my experience, only after you prod them. I think communication with the user who sent in the issue should be mandatory through email or PM, so the user does not feel ignored, even when they aren't.
We are perfectly willing to tell you guys things, but since we are busy we don't activly prod you about issues unless we need your help in resolving it. I am working on a replacement for the issue system that will have full transparency in the process and have email notifications.
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#### TIfanx1999

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2014, 06:25:55 pm »
Also, I'm pretty much always around (although the next few months might be a bit more scarce). You can always poke me about things. If nothing else I can pass stuff on. I can (and do) also help with minor stuff you guys might need (moving topics, changing passwords, fixing minor acct issues, etc.). I certainly hope no one feels put off by changes made. Obviously, we want this to be a place people enjoy and come back to. So yes, do voice your opinions. We are always listening.

#### DJ Omnimaga

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2014, 06:46:05 pm »

Well to clarify on that one, the upgrade was not supposed to happen that soon, it happened in emergency because serious security exploits got discovered in the previous install, forcing a premature upgrade. Also, if the upgrade didn't happen then, it would have happened this month, because now Simplemachines just killed SMF 1.1.x. There will not be a SMF 1.1.21 security patch, because they said a few weeks ago when releasing 2.0.9 + 1.1.20 that after 1.1.20, it's over. (Although I don't understand why they terminated the 1.1 branch so soon, when it took 6 years after 1.1 release to terminate 1.0)

On top of that, the Omnimaga admin team better stop working on the forum theme right now, because apparently SMF 2.1 is in alpha or beta stages, on Github, so why work hard on a forum theme when you know you'll have to redo it again from scratch in two years (since SMF will most likely put the axe in 2.0.x shortly afterward)? I guess fixing some display issues wouldn't hurt, though, but I mean not spending weeks and weeks polishing a SMF 2.0 theme that won't even run on 2.1 >.<
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 06:56:15 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### alberthrocks

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2014, 07:31:08 pm »
Hi there!

I'm alberthrocks, a [something something related to admin/mod stuffs, don't know because I'm a weird member]. I'm a very boring member - don't post much (if at all), but I do provide servers and support on occasion. I'm probably best known for running withgusto, a community hosting server that provides hosting (duh), along with a nice shell environment, an awesome** development envrionment, IRC bot hosting, and ZNC IRC bouncers. A lot of people use my services, and (I think) they enjoy them! Despite that, they also know I'm probably one of the more lazier server admins out there, having promised a migration a year ago and never delivered...

That said though, I do listen to everyone's feedback, and when I do get a chance, I make an effort to further withgusto's progress. Often, though, I'm really busy - in fact, I've been gone the past week or so thanks to school midterms. (And coming back now, I was kinda surprised - this little topic popped up!)

Why mention withgusto? Simply said - my situation is somewhat like the other admins. I'm not an admin of Omnimaga by any means - yeah, I do have moderation privs, and yeah, I help out from time to time, but I don't participate per-say in these "admin discussions". However, I know the admins pretty well, and had some experience firsthand.

Simply said - people are busy! Eeems has a paid job (full-time, no less), geekboy as well, while others either are in college or working. (Deep Thought, in fact, is in a pretty intense college right now and is working very hard!) So things can get busy from time to time, and it can look like the admins are a bunch of lazy bums (like me!) who are doing nothing. Not true - just busy, that's all.

The next thing you'll say: why not hire new admins? Sure, we can - but it ALSO takes time to vet potential new hires. You wouldn't want a random internet stranger to become a new admin, right? We understand that we need new fresh blood to replace the oldies - and believe me, the admins know this better than anyone else. We just don't have a lot of time to do it, but we try to make things work when we get a chance.

Remember the topic about shifting roles and all that? That was created because the admins had a short burst of time to make things work. But as always, Murphy's Law comes into effect, and it takes a LOT longer... making it stall, as you can see now. (I'm probably still CoT, which probably should be given to somebody that is actually working on a project!)

So don't assume we're not listening - we ARE! But we just don't have time, and we wish we did. It's a never-ending vicious cycle, but we love the community, and we want to make sure that things go right. I agree that we probably need one admin to be the publicity guy so it doesn't look like we're shady folks with cigars...

One other thing - THAT admin who is pretty harsh. I'm gonna name him - it's Eeems! He can sometimes be a bit brash...

*runs*

No joke, he does make some brash comments sometimes. But you're seeing his bad side. His best is not when you see him at his worst! (Using that in a movie start's at $0.50 per box-office dollar made!) But in all seriousness, yeah he can be a bit brash, and I'm saying that as his friend. We've all had our bad moments, and in no way am I condoning his behavior. I've even seen it firsthand myself - and yeah Eeems, you could make it sound a bit better. As people have said, if you think he's being a bit brash, message us admins here and we'll talk to him about it. Yes, it's awkward, but everyone - Eeems, the admins, and the community as a whole - appreciates it. We can all work to better each other and ourselves - admins included. Finally (finally!), I agree that Eeems (et. al.) should have a bigger say. It's a dictatorship that accepts community feedback - and it's perfectly fine with me. Eeems does pay upwards of$100/mo - and out of his own wallet, too! Sure, we could move the forum to a free forum host... but believe me, you and I know that it would sorta not work out well...

But again, we're not here to rule with iron fists. Yeah, we have the final say, but we all have ears too, and we're working based on your feedback. Pretty much all communities are like this - community driven, with a few upper guys to make the final decisions. It just sounds terrifying when the word "dictatorship" is used - and yeah, let's not use that word again. (BAD ADMINS! STOP USING IT!) Instead, let's go back to the original word, the word that we're all aiming for - community.

So yeah, don't feel too upset. We're actually pretty receptive, and the way our community works as a whole (not just the admin side) is pretty unique. Even if I started a new community (withgusto Forums! WOAH!!!), or anyone else, it wouldn't feel the same as the others. (And if you went to a certain other English calculator community out there, it would certainly be very different!) And honestly, I'm glad - that's why many of us here can call this place home.

tl;dr We're trying, be patient!

P.S. - withgusto migration delayed.    Gotta run, bye!

** IMO it's awesome! Not sure what the others think, though... especially with the above P.S.

EDIT: P.S.S.: Eeems told me to put this link in: http://ourl.ca/finances
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 07:49:19 pm by alberthrocks »
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#### Juju

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2014, 07:49:43 pm »
Well.

Thank you Albert.

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#### Hayleia

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2014, 10:57:35 am »
Well, we expressed ourselves when we felt like things were going bad. Now, I would like to express myself (not as a group this time, really just my feeling) about how things seem to go pretty well now in my opinion

I am not going to provide proofs (links) of what I am saying because what for ? I am telling you "it's ok", why would you want me to prove it ?
I just don't want you to think "I am bad" all your life even if it's not true just because we told you this once.

So yeah, here's a list of improvements I saw so far in two weeks:

-Someone once reported a problem. Instead of saying "use the form, it's here for something", admins either answered in the thread saying that it will be fixed or fixed this already, I don't remember. But at least they did not say "use the form".
I am obviously not saying that those forms should not be used, but when an issue is reported on a topic (because the member who reported forgot about the forms or just felt like the topic was more appropriate to get an answer or such), and when an admin has the time to say "use the form", he also had the time to fill the form himself for example, if he really wanted that report on a form. I am not saying either that users should go lazy and not use the forms, just that saying only "use the form" is not constructive and it's great that you don't only rely on it.

-We are often on IRC with Eeems and I never saw him bitter those last two weeks. On the contrary, he was making jokes with us, contributing to one of those discussions that would have lead to a "use -spam for spammy discussions".
Once again, I am not saying that spam shouldn't be used, but when there is no serious discussion and when the discussion is joky but not spammy, in my opinion it can stay on the main channel.

(And I think there was something else that improved but I forgot -.-)
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#### DJ Omnimaga

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2014, 02:53:45 pm »
Actually I wouldn't have minded being told to use the report form if it wasn't for being reprimanded almost everytime for not using it properly (it gets quite hard to remember what goes there, what goes elsewhere and what is out of Omni's control) and being yelled at for not using it beforehand. Although it might not necessarily have been intended to be yelling nor being rude, the way our requests were replied to in March/April sounded like Omnimaga rule #1 only applied to members, not staff. Thankfully I haven't read nor heard about anything like that in a while, but I didn't use the form for a while so I can't really tell if it really stopped or not.

Also both Eeems and Geek have been around more and aside from one instance where SFW 4chan screenshots were censored again, I have not noticed any issue that brought up what partly led to this petition. There were a bit more site changes and stuff until Geek got busy too.

The only issue now (that the petition was not directed at) that have yet to be solved is if the said site updates will continue in long terms and if the promised staffing renewal to increase activity will happen. For that, we need a wayback machine to travel to 2018 in order to know. Also, admins really need to subscribe to SMF news sub-forum so that they don't have to rely on the Issues form in order to know about SMF emergency patches. There is also the issue about project sub-forum requirements, but that was a decision taken by admins and I already voiced my concern about that so I guess this is final. That said, the admins have the right to run the site how they want, so if they decide that things go a specific route and speed, we can't really do anything else than voicing our opinion about it and/or going elsewhere.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### Geekboy1011

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2014, 05:25:14 pm »
Yeah i got busy it sucks :?

We are working on the transparency thing with issues. First we have to fix email which eeems is working on pretty regularly (he nags me about shit all the time) Once that is done we can give everyone the ability to subscribe to forums and subforums as well atm you can't! See I disabled it when we updated (and yes I did mention this when we updated because of the limit on the amount of emails we can send. You can currently ask for subscriptions to individual threads tho!

As for fourchan sorry keep that in spam legit/sfw or not that's my opinion tho, I would rather not have it in the main channel.

And of course the site will be maintained. And yes there is debate on hiring processes going on. But we currently have to iron some other..bugs? out. Permissions are still being wonky on the new SMF and until I get the solid I wont promote anyone to power.

And as for SMF emergency patches. We are all subscribed to both the debain security lists. The Smf security list. And a few others regarding other tools/utilities we run on the site. We do care

#### DJ Omnimaga

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2014, 08:32:36 pm »
I don't think there was a topic and I forgot the exact date, but basically from what I gathered, projects like VVVVVV, nVVVVVV or IkarugaX wouldn't even have been considered for project sub-forums. IIRC for VVVVVV it was something about not bringing up crowds.

In other words, if I want a sub-forum, I just have to start a quadratic solver called Pokémon, Mario or Zelda then I'm set. But if I dare working on some obscurely-named 3D RPG in TI-Nspire C then I won't even be considered unless it uses a name as popular as the aforementioned Nintendo franchises.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### Eeems

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2014, 08:41:34 pm »
In other words, if I want a sub-forum, I just have to start a quadratic solver called Pokémon, Mario or Zelda then I'm set. But if I dare working on some obscurely-named 3D RPG in TI-Nspire C then I won't even be considered unless it uses a name as popular as the aforementioned Nintendo franchises.
That is not true at all.
/e

#### DJ Omnimaga

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2014, 09:28:07 pm »
Maybe, but that's pretty much what I gathered from the convo I had with Geek about sub-forums additions on IRC a few months ago. >.< I mean, if even VVVVVV and Ikaruga, two popular franchises, were not considered, then what will, besides the huge Nintendo franchises and FPS'es?
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### pimathbrainiac

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##### Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2014, 01:56:14 am »
Guys. This debate is more ideolical than anything else (about subforums). VVVVVV didn't have the same polish and replayability as SSBO does/will have. It also didn't help that the author begged multiple times for a subforum. Ikaruga deserved one, imo, but it didn't have a large enough following to be considered "major" in the eyes of at least 3/5 of the admins' minds. While I do not agree with the decision, I understand it. It doesn't help that there are too many subforums as well.

That said, I would like to see a liason position open up, so he/she can work on the openness while the admins work on admining. Maybe just with view perms on the staff boards.
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