Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda  (Read 33766 times)

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Offline Magic Banana

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2010, 03:16:19 am »
Wow, didn't realize that all the tiles used a 4 color palette while the sprites all use 3. Looks like they are converting to grayscale very nicely as well. Just wondering, is there any particular reason you left the enemies/rupees in color or is that just a quick mockup of where they might be in-game?

Anyways, the map looks great!  :D

Personally I prefer a minimalistic HUD like the first one you were using. With such small screen size I think its best if you are able to utilize more of the screen space. You could even drop it to just displaying hearts in my opinion, and add some transparency. That way, you get to utilize the whole screen. The mockups look good, I just don't want it to feel cramped. You'd have more space if you were to use 8X8, but then you'd loose detail. Another thought is that you could design the screens to be scrollable and eventually transition when you reach a certain point in order to give the illusion of more space. Just some thoughts.
IIRC, there was another Zelda game which displayed just the hearts in the minimalistic style you are talking about. Perhaps he could keep them on the right, but make the background transparent? Then again, if he did that he would have to change the maps to accommodate that. Hmm ...

EDIT:Nevermind, looks like he's keeping the style he's got now.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 03:17:43 am by Magic Banana »
I do sprites and stuff, so yeah.

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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2010, 03:29:29 am »
The rupee colors represent quantity. Red is a single rupee, which is the only quantity that can be dropped by enemies or objects, and blue is five rupees, which is only received while diving. Chests can contain 20 rupees.

The enemies are in color to distinguish them from NPCs. Some NPCs are ambiguous, and could pass as monsters. (see the moblin standing in the Deepword Forest, who sells Link a shield; he's friendly) This helps clarify the difference between them. The color also helps to avoid these objects blending with the map, itself. (and thus, the possibility of me accidentally overlooking them later)

I actually did consider a transparent HUD, but it wouldn't work. Since this is grayscale, and there's no real palette that can be swapped around, pretty much any attempt at a transparent HUD would just blend-in with the background. I've even tried creating an outline around HUD objects to help them stick-out, but the details are always too messy. Ironically, that probably works out better in monochrome. Spencer's Zelda has a transparent heart display that's fairly easy to discern from background objects.

Despite the quirkiness of having a side-HUD, I'm actually starting to like it. :P I'm mostly looking at it from a perspective of efficiency. Now I can fit Link's secondary item on the screen; so the player always knows what they currently have equipped.

Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #92 on: July 11, 2010, 03:55:46 am »
I have to stick with the side-HUD, since maps are presently designed around it. Trying to work around the original HUD is just too difficult. I liked the idea as well, but I'm also not patient enough to painstakingly break the map tiles into 8x8 pieces and assemble 32x32 objects from them.

Wow, didn't realize that all the tiles used a 4 color palette while the sprites all use 3. Looks like they are converting to grayscale very nicely as well. Just wondering, is there any particular reason you left the enemies/rupees in color or is that just a quick mockup of where they might be in-game?

Anyways, the map looks great!  :D

Personally I prefer a minimalistic HUD like the first one you were using. With such small screen size I think its best if you are able to utilize more of the screen space. You could even drop it to just displaying hearts in my opinion, and add some transparency. That way, you get to utilize the whole screen. The mockups look good, I just don't want it to feel cramped. You'd have more space if you were to use 8X8, but then you'd loose detail. Another thought is that you could design the screens to be scrollable and eventually transition when you reach a certain point in order to give the illusion of more space. Just some thoughts.
IIRC, there was another Zelda game which displayed just the hearts in the minimalistic style you are talking about. Perhaps he could keep them on the right, but make the background transparent? Then again, if he did that he would have to change the maps to accommodate that. Hmm ...

EDIT:Nevermind, looks like he's keeping the style he's got now.
Transparency was what I was suggesting, and it would not be necessary to break the tiles up if that was the route you decided to take. This is what Spencer's Zelda does (although his is black and white). I don't know how transparency works in either setting, so that would be something one of our ASMers might be able to answer.
Anyway, all that said... The Zora's domain overworld that you posted does look much roomier.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #93 on: July 11, 2010, 12:48:56 pm »
Transparency would be nice, altough I wonder if it would be a little slow. My guess is that it wouldn't be that bad, but I only tested by drawing 4 transparent sprites. Each masked sprites involves drawing two sprites and twice more sprite data for them. If the hearts are all aligned on the 8 pixels columns, then speed improves, though.
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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #94 on: July 11, 2010, 01:10:09 pm »
Currently, the way I (or Iambian, rather) handle transparency in my games is similar to how NES reserves one channel for masking. In this case, dark gray is always the mask; so sprites only consist of black and white, and light gray. Any dark gray in the sprite is just something that outlines the areas that need to be read as transparent. No need to draw duplicate sprites for masking. It was also decided that avoiding dark grays helps sprites stand-out from their environment. The sprites would appear somewhat brighter than BG objects.

As I mentioned, I already looked into the transparent HUD idea, but didn't get good results. The only way to really distinguish the hearts from the BG is to draw a white outline; but then that makes the hearts appear really awkward in the case of grayscale. I would also have to make them substantially smaller to fit them within an 8x8 space. This is why I decided on the reserved space for the HUD in the first place.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #95 on: July 11, 2010, 02:43:02 pm »
Aaah I see.

Btw looks pretty nice. One thing, though: you aren't using the right shades of gray to represent an idea of how it would look like on the real calc. Normally here is how it should be for calcs:
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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #96 on: July 11, 2010, 03:16:18 pm »
It's fairly easy to distinguish on some models, but less so on others. I just don't think it would work out. Plus, I already have a portion of the maps designed around the current HUD. I can't change it now without completely redesigning these maps.

I've finished Zora's Domain. Haven't added all the events yet, but this is the gist of the map layout.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 04:28:46 pm by Zera »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #97 on: July 11, 2010, 03:26:15 pm »
Oooh I see. I guess it may be best to keep the vertical one then. Plus those maps must have required a lot of work. They are really great :D
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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #98 on: July 11, 2010, 04:29:58 pm »
Wow. I am clumsy. I used the wrong grid resolution in the previous Zora map, so there was an extra 2 columns of map area. I had to cut it out and do some editing. Here's the new map. (now with events)

Also - a synopsis of game events:

 - Speak to the Great Fairy and receive Fairy Dust.

 - Use Fairy Dust to remove the tree blocking Level-1.

 - Defeat the Giant Octorok and obtain a Heart Container.

 - Get bombs from the last room of Level-1.

 - Blast the blocks outside of Level-1 to gain entry to Knol Cemetery.

 - Play Hero's Etude on the Hero's Crest in front of the last tombstone to reveal a warp to Zora's Domain.

 - Defeat Clawgrip and obtain a Heart Container.

 - Get Flippers from the last room of Level-2.

 - Swim to the cave in Zora's Domain where Eulogy of Winds is procured.

 - Play Eulogy of Winds near Lake Tola to reach the entrance to Goro Valley.

 - Play Hero's Etude on Hero's Crest to reveal a warp to Goro Valley.

 - Defeat Gleeock and obtain a Heart Container.

 - Get the Giant's Ring from last room of Level-3.

 - Use the Giant's Ring to move the statue blocking the path to Mt. Goro Summit.

 - Play Hero's Etude on the Hero's Crest to reveal a warp to the Sea of Clouds.

 - Get the Switch-Hook from Level-4.

 - Defeat Eyesoar and obtain a Heart Container.

 - Procure the Dreamer's Ballad from the ruins outside of Level-4 by using the Switch-Hook to clear the pitfall.

 - Return to Labrus and play the Hero's Etude in front of Dark Castle Tola to open the gate blocking Level-5. (note that this crest will only respond if the player has all three songs)

 - Play the Dreamer's Ballad to prevent the armos from obstructing Link's path to Lazra.

 - Get the Firewheel Rod from Level-5.

 - Use the Firewheel Rod to clear the ice that obstructs Link's path.

 - Defeat Shadow Link and Lazra.

This just details all the primary obstructions that prevent Link from progressing beyond a certain point, and how the sequence is fulfilled.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 10:23:45 pm by Zera »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #99 on: July 11, 2010, 04:53:18 pm »
Interesting, will there be more enemies on the overworld? (and pieces of heart?)
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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #100 on: July 11, 2010, 05:00:56 pm »
Interesting, will there be more enemies on the overworld? (and pieces of heart?)

There's one Piece of Heart per world. In Labrus, the first Piece of Heart is behind a block near Deepwood Pass. In Zora's Domain, the second Piece of Heart is obtained by using the upper-right whirlpool (from Labrus) to reach a path in the domain which leads to the Oasis in Labrus. (it's a bit complicated to explain this route, because you require so many items to reach it) I haven't designed the other two maps yet, so I haven't places the other two Pieces of Heart there.

I may try to fit more enemies in Zora's Domain, since there aren't many. On the other hand, I may have more opportunities to scatter larger quantities of enemies around the other two overworlds.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2010, 05:08:32 pm »
Oooh I see, thanks for the info ^^
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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2010, 08:16:15 pm »
I decided to restructure some things with how the map responds to the use of Link's harp. Rather than three crests, there are now five. Each corresponds to different songs, events and effects.

The Hero's Crest mostly indicates the point Link is warped to whenever he plays the harp while standing on one of the overworlds. He will be transported to the Hero's Crest in that specific overworld. These crests are usually within the center of each world, allowing Link to quickly access each area.

Secondly, the Hero's Crest in front of Castle Tola breaks the seal on the castle's gate, assuming Link has empowered his harp with all three songs available in the game.

The Wind Crest appears near currents of water. If Link has learned the Eulogy of Winds song, he can play his harp on this crest to reverse the flow of these currents.

The Dream Crest allows Link to play the Dreamer's Ballad, if he has learned it. This ballad puts all on-screen enemies to sleep.

Zora's Crest is directly linked to and from Zora's Domain. If Link plays the harp here, regardless of how many songs he's mastered, he will be taken through a bi-directional portal.

Goro's Crest is directly linked to and from Goro Valley. If Link plays the harp here, regardless of how many songs he's mastered, he will be taken through a bi-directional portal.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2010, 08:26:11 pm »
They look nice. btw, when using the harp, will we need to play the song ourselves (memorizing the melody) like in Ocarina of Time? That said, if the game lacked music, it might be harder to perform and seems more like remembering sequences of buttons rather than a melody, though. That said, it would be fun if we could play them (altough idk how hard to code it would be) since we could add easter eggs like if we play a rickroll :P
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Offline Zera

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Re: The Legend of Zelda
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2010, 08:28:38 pm »
The reason I used crests is to bypass the whole ordeal with memorizing songs. Basically, you just step on a crest and use the harp. The song is automatically played, depending on the crest you're standing on. (so you only play Eulogy of Winds, for instance, if you're standing on a Wind Crest)

There's nothing else to really distinguish the melodies. Regardless of what you play, the animation looks the same.